Carburetor and Fuel System
Title: Need
advice on new carburetor 1957 Panhead
Looking at getting a new carburetor for my '57 Pan to replace the original Linkert. Does the S&S make a lot of difference in ease of starting, gas mileage etc? Is there anything else I'll need besides the "kit" to make it work on my bike?
Thanks much for any info...
I've got her tore down right now after blowing a hole in a piston last fall and about to start putting her back together.
Post by suicideshovel65 on Mar 4, 2004, 9:44am
I had a Super B on my shovel, and I've got an SU on my pan. Based on my experience with the two, I'd probably go for the SU if I had to buy again. It's dead simple to play around with, looks period enough, and seems to match the running characteristics of my machine (although obviously that primarily means the jetting was sorted by the previous owner). I like it. Some people will say no doubt to stick with the Linkert and tune it; others will say you can save money by tuning a CV carb or similar to work with your bike. I guess it all comes down to personal preference stylistically, and how you intend to ride your bike.
As an aside I have often wondered what the S&S L carb is like to work with - don't mean to create thread-drift albeit slight, but has anyone ever used one of these before on their pan?
Cheers,
S.
Post by Dereborn on Mar 4, 2004, 5:11pm
I'm with ss65 all the way! My SU never let me down. Looks good and is really kinda personal... Easy jetting and calibration, great response and good gas mileage!
Good Luck!
Post by haggis on Mar 5, 2004, 3:25am
Tlgrooms....
as Suicide said " some people will say stay with the Linkert and tune it".....I agree...the Linkert was made for it...nothing works better than a well set up and tweeked Linkert...buy a rebuild kit ,clean it up , tell it that you love it, stick it on and it'll run like a top.Haggis
P.S. 57....nice year.......the best... look after it.
Post by Hopper on Mar 5, 2004, 2:57pm
I put a 38mm Mikuni on my 56 pan about 25 years ago. Best thing I could have done for it. Idles smooth, starts easy, no leaks, good low speed manners and picked up better than 10-15 more mpg than the old linkert.
I had the linkert on it for years before so I've been able to compare. The Mikuni has less top end but the plusses make up for it.
You can still buy the kits.
Keep the Linkert if someday you want to restore to stock.
My advice for what it's worth
Gary
Post by 57Kicker on Mar 6, 2004, 4:09am
S&S Super E on my 57. Works well and relativlely (sp) easy to tune. I wonder if the burnt hole in the piston is from running lean. Leaking intake? May cause some discussion here....CHEERS!
Post by tlgrooms on Mar 11, 2004, 5:12am
Really appreciate all the replies. I went ahead and got an S&S carb. Want to see how well it performs. Can always go back to the Linkert if I need too...
Anyone with an S&S have any suggestions for problems they encountered? And yep, think the linkert may have been set too lean and caused the problem with the blown piston.
Again many thanks to all for the replies..
Tim
Post by tlgrooms on Mar 15, 2004, 4:38pm
Can anyone tell me if the S&S Dual cable throttle assembly kits for '81 - '04 will work on my '57 with the super e?
Thanks!
Post by dirtydistrict on Mar 15, 2004, 5:19pm
Hi Tlgrooms, read this
http://www.sscycle.com/catalog/knuckle/CarburetorKits.htm
If you want to keep hidden throttle cable in your bar there will be some minor modifications
Post by 57stroker on Mar 16, 2004, 7:53am
I put a Super E on my 57 FLH. After I got the bike running again, I went to a Harley dealer that had a Dynojet. For an hour's worth of flat rate, they did a couple of dyno runs and used the exhaust gas analyzer to size my jets for me. The bike sure runs good and I don't worry about melting my motor 'cause the jetting is too lean. Probably the best $45 I ever spent!
Post by Cotten on Mar 16, 2004, 2:09pm
S&S, Bendix, SU, Keihin, DelOrto, Mikiruni, Quicksilver, ScreaminChicken,....They are all good carbs. There are no bad carbs on the modern market. Just a couple are complicated. But Panheads came from the Factory with a great carb.
There was a time when there was no option but modern. Parts were extinct, and Linkerts were so worn that efficiency and performance were memories.
But now the complete selection of replacement parts, often of better-than-original quality, is readily available. Worn bodies can be totally blueprinted. Suddenly, some riders are getting the gasmileage that their fathers boasted about.
Those of us who still want speed will always go modern, of course. But some of us really need a place to put our right knee.
Will trade Linkerts for Scheblers, however!
Post by OldHippie on Jun 5, 2004, 5:09pm
Alright, it's time for another newbie question: what's involved in converting from a Bendix to a Linkert? I'm looking at a Linkert in fairly good shape; certainly better than the Bendix on my '57, which appears to be less than pristine. BTW, I do have the OE manual, which tells me lots and lots about the Linkert - but not a thing about a Bendix.
New manifold? And why am I reading about "manifold bolts"? What's distinctive about them? Thanks, everyone.
Post by billy on Jun 5, 2004, 9:45pm
Bendix carbs started in 1971 or 72 on Shovels & sportys
Prior to that there was the Tillotson. That's why you don't see anything in your Pan Manual, on them.
But they were plentiful & simple. So they were being used on anything they would bolt to. And a rebuild kit was about $10. bucks & anyone with a couple tools could rebuild one decent enough to keep it working OK.
Don't read anywhere about the "manifold bolts" ??
Post by Jack Hester on Jun 6, 2004, 12:46am
Old Hippie -
Tell us something about the engine. How close to stock is it? Valves, cam, etc....? I personally think that the Linkert is one of the finest carbs that you can put on your Pan. Very tuneable and trouble free, once you get it set up. And, follow Cotton's advice on the leak checking, before mounting up any carb. It doesn't have an accelerator pump, but I never noticed at anytime on my 59 Pan. Now, this all being said, I'm pondering the use of one of the CV carbs used on all the new H-D stuff. Not on my Pan, but on some other projects that I have in the shop. You'll have to pick Billy's brain, as to the proper setup on one of them. I'm glad that everyone's taking them off, because that means I can get one at a good price. I may get several. Then, I'll pick his brain.
Jack
Post by fasted53 on Jun 6, 2004, 1:54am
tlgrooms, Just put a S&S on my 53 this week. I ordered the panhead kit and the S&S dual throttle kit. I had to hand fit the intake to the nipples but every thing else worked great. Ed
Post by OldHippie on Jun 6, 2004, 9:15am
The motor is all stock 74" as far as I know, but I haven't torn anything down yet. I'm concerned about things like whether we're talking a different manifold; I've already figured out it's a different air cleaner. The Bendix on the bike works, but it's obviously in need of severe attention to work well and/or continue to work; from what I've read, I'd rather spend my energy on a Linkert because it will behave better with the motor. FWIW....
Post by Cotten on Jun 6, 2004, 1:49pm
Yes, you will need an original-design manifold, which has a four-bolt flange on the carb end.
The M74B is attached with four 5/16" slotted screws that are also 7/16" hex headed as well. A phenolic spacer block goes in between the manifold and the carb, so the screws must be the proper length (HD made about 4 different lengths, and too long of ones will crush the throttle bushing and bind it.)
Note that there is also a proper bottom support for the carb, as well as a gas strainer. Another concern is the control wire, which must move in the opposite direction of a Bendix.
All parts are currently reproduced. I suggest a Factory parts book to reference to the correct numbers for ordering from your preferred local aftermarket shop.
Post by billy on Jun 6, 2004, 7:48pm
Old Hippie, If you are lucky, you have an "adapter" from your original 4 bolt Linkert Manifold to the 2 bolt Bendix.
Then you would NOT need an intake. You'll have to check that & see..Pressure testing would still be recommended...The adapters are pretty common.
And as to your throttle being a "Pull" spiral for the Bendix. You will need a change that to a "push" spiral for the Linkert. The Spirals as I'm sure you already know
are inside the throttle & advance/ retard grips...To achieve the 'pull' on the throttle, a left spark retard spiral is used. To go back to a 'push' you will need a normal throttle spiral.
Who knows the former owner may have just switched both from side to side. I think you should be getting the idea.
Do you still have manual advance timer ??
If so which way do you turn it to advance it ??
Post by OldHippie on Jun 7, 2004, 7:12am
Um, advance/retard? I have just a throttle, with a single cable. I have the OE manual for the Linkert, but pretty much zip on the Bendix - all I've done so far is adjust the idle mixture so it wasn't so stinkin' rich. For all I know, there's another setting just flopping around with no control mechanism - after all, the choke was wired open.
If anyone has a pointer to, say a PDF with a Bendix breakdown, I'd really appreciate it. Or if there's a particular manual that would have it....
Post by billy on Jun 7, 2004, 5:15pm
Once again, the Bendix only started being used on Shovels & sportys in late 1971-2. So NO this won't be in your Pan manual. If you have an external cable to carb, then it 'seems' your handlebars have been changed. Because Original was internal control wire like on a lawnmower throttle wire.
A manual that would have Bendix in it would be a service manual that covered 1971-72 & on sporty manual. or big twin same years.
What do you have for a timer ??
auto-advance or a Magneto ??
Need some answers to better reply to the questions...
Post by OldHippie on Jul 3, 2004, 5:48pm
No, I didn't die - work keeps getting in the way of my life.
Looks to me like the timer is auto-advance. In any event, I'm not having too much trouble starting the bike; after it runs for a few minutes, the idle climbs a bit higher than I like, however. With the simple adjustments on the Bendix, I'm not sure how to balance that against cold start idle; there doesn't appear to be anything temperature-tracking.
However, I did pick up a Linkert through eBay; a friend offered to go through it for me, as he's worked with them for years. It came with a four-bolt aluminum manifold, which is helpful - the Bendix is mounted on its proper two-bolt manifold, so I'll need to replace it.
BTW, had a fun (NOT) outing with the Bendix a few days ago: I started up the motorcycle (on the first kick), was warming up and it started to stumble. Oops, forgot to turn on the gas (it's been a few years since I had to worry about that). I didn't turn it on in time, and the engine died. Now I couldn't get it to restart, and gas started pouring out of the overflow! Of course, all you old hands know it was just a stuck float, but I was out and about, so... hello, roadside assistance? I took the carb apart (well, took the bowl off) when I got home, put it back together, no more problem! Now that I see how it's assembled, I know exactly what happened: when the gas ran out in the bowl, the bike was on the kickstand (at an angle), and the float valve must have hung up on the side of the orifice.
I'm hoping the Linkert will be a bit more fault-tolerant.
Post by dj on Jul 3, 2004, 7:10pm
Where does the Bendix support bracket attach? On the carb and the bike? I need to make or buy one. Doing a pressure check soon, with pressure test plate I made and methinks a support bracket is important, afterwards.
Good luck with the Linkert, OldHippie!
Post by billy on Jul 3, 2004, 10:35pm
Methinks a support bracket is good on any set-up.......
It's easy to make one to bolt from carb base bottom bolt, straight down the case bolt between the barrels. A nice chrome/or whatever strap will do nicely.. ;D
Try to drill the holes pretty "Exact" to have the strap do the supporting & not a Tightened nut, on an over-sized hole. Better support that way.. IMO
Even the Brand New HD's still have the carb supported by clamping the air-cleaner backing plate to the heads.
Post by dj on Jul 4, 2004, 11:18am
Billy...
I knew it probly should go on the center case stud, but I wasn't sure about on the carb. Thanks....I'll make it work.
Dave
Post by billy on Jul 5, 2004, 12:52am
DJ, if you use some nice material, like a chrome strap, or a stainless strap then polish it up & it will look Primo when you're done. But you already know that.. ;D
Post by dj on Jul 5, 2004, 11:50am
The Primo is on the other side of the bike!
I'll just make up a 3/4" strap of some kind and because I wouldn't want to send it out to have it chromed right away, I would cover it with shrink tubing. It's clean looking and the metal underneath doesn't have to be perfect either. On my generator, somebody did that to the strap that covers the the armatures, [edit: I meant brushes] and I thought that was a cool idea, so I'm going to use it for other things also, as well as replace it on the generator strap. Shrink tubing makes an excellent "gasket" for that strap.
Post by billy on Jul 5, 2004, 11:13pm
DJ, thanks for pointing me in the "right direction" where the Primo is... ;D ;D
I guess I just think that everyone saves all metal, stuff. whatever. Like I do, & can go & pull out a nice chrome strap & add 2 holes & "BAM" It looks like it came with it.
Interesting about your 'shrink-tubing' it.. I use it plenty for wiring. But you will be the 1st that I know with a rubber-coated support bracket.. Very Cool!!! ;D
