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Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

Identifaction of VIN, case numbers and cylinder heads
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rms337
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Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#1

Post by rms337 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:37 pm

I am not ready to give the full backstory on this picture yet, but will when I can. The bike is a 1949 model. The belly numbers match and look untouched. Belly numbers also reflect a '49 61.

While I have my reasons for the suspect VIN, I am not an experienced owner and am seeking input on both the VIN and the repair job (JBWeld? Epoxy) below it and what it may be covering. Any feedback would be hugely appreciated. I have been reading the other threads on VINS and have not yet purchased the book that has been recommended by several people.

Please point out all areas of concern and anything you can provide will be greatly appreciated. I am particularly curious about the shape of the 9 and the 6.

Thanks...

Rick
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old.wrench
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#2

Post by old.wrench » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:12 pm

Rick, I'm not a numbers expert, but it's pretty clear that the epoxy repair is covering up the worst looking area of a mighty rough looking repair. It looks like a gas welded repair and by the file marks that were left, I'd be willing to bet that the repairman was right handed (which means nothing!). Is it a runner?

Geo.

edit- After another look, it looks like the epoxy may be an attempt to stop an oil leak.

edit#2- That's a pretty good sized crack.

blewcrab
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#3

Post by blewcrab » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:59 pm

as for the 9 and 6 , I have seen the same straight line on many vin numbers including my own 65

caschnd1
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#4

Post by caschnd1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:53 pm

Yikes! That's a wicked looking crack and a questionable repair. You can see that the crack is continuing both to the left and right of the repaired area. It will continue to grow until the case comes apart. I had a similar crack that was repaired at great expense (see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for 6 pages of discussion and photos).

It looks to me like there are deep gouges (grind marks?) above and below the number pad. I'd bet it was ground off previously to make the repair and than an attempt was made to restore it. It's impossible to say if there was any funny stuff going on (like changing the numbers) or weather it was simply an honest attempt to make a legitimate repair (federal law specifically defers to the states to allow/disallow these types of repairs). The squished "9" and "6" don't look right to me. I've only seen those on later cases. I would expect the tails to be straight, like in your photo, but the circle parts of the "6" and "9" to be more round (not oval like in your photo).

EDIT: I'll also add that the "4" doesn't look correct to me. It is an open top "4" but the line on the upper left extends way above the the vertical line on the right. That's not the "4" they used on any of the original '49 cases I've looked at.

-Craig
Last edited by caschnd1 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

panhead george
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#5

Post by panhead george » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Poor repair, Poor # job and this is a time bomb just waiting to explode. Maybe someone can make this right but it will be a long walk home if it is not done right.

RUBONE
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#6

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 am

Regretfully that is not only a poor repair, a poor re-stamp with wrong numbers, but the number of cracks radiating out of the whole area are very disturbing. The numbers may very well be the same ones originally assigned to that case and were lost during the initial repair. But the ones on their now are horrible and the case is a mess. The epoxy is likely just covering another hairline crack.

And Blewcrab,
You may have had straight backed numbers on your bike, but not like those. Note the oval tops, the regular type are round except '69.
Robbie

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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#7

Post by kitabel » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:14 am

VIN is an obvious fake, using the wrong stamps.

HD48FL
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#8

Post by HD48FL » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:14 pm

Yep, what they all said.

Kind of funny someone covered up two numbers in the vin, maybe they think it's real?

PainterRon
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#9

Post by PainterRon » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Image

RUBONE
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#10

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:22 pm

PainterRon,
That square plug in the timing hole makes me want to throw up. It can lead to exactly the type of damage in the subject case picture!
Welcome to the site.
Now fix that plug... :mrgreen:

Mr.Big
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#11

Post by Mr.Big » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:32 pm

That is the wackiest thing I've ever seen. Really looks like they stuck another VIN pad on top of the original and then stamped it with some funky numbers. And for good measure they used some Bazooka bubble gum to top it off........ :shock:

So Rick, what is the full "back story" on this mess?

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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#12

Post by john HD » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:15 pm

at least you have the felon's finger prints in the epoxy!

john

rms337
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#13

Post by rms337 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 am

The widow that currently owns it bought it for her husband as a gift in '99. He had only ridden it twice since then. She told me they did nothing to it during the last 14 years. Has all the paperwork from where she bought it and is thinking about talking to her attorney as the place is still in business. She had no idea of the issues with the case and VIN. I have the opportunity to pick it up, but I know the VIN will always be an issue, even if the case was repairable. I curious to know if it is realistic to pick up a '48 panhead engine with a valid VIN, retitle it, and try to make everything right. I know it won't be original, but at least it won't be questionable. Any thoughts?

It does have original carb, manifold and air cleaner

caschnd1
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#14

Post by caschnd1 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:38 am

We're you joking about the carb, manifold and air cleaner? Definitely not original.

Assuming the bike comes with a title that has the 49FLxxxx number on it, you could replace the case with aftermarket and get an assigned # from the state. Another option is to get a replica replacement case and have it restamped with the VIN on the bad case. There is no evidence that it was restamped for an illegal purpose previously. It could have been restamped after trying to repair the cracks. It was just done very badly. In many states, you are allowed to restamp for the purpose of making a repair. It becomes a felony if you restamp for the purpose of furthering a theft. Check the laws of your state before you head down this path. If you go this route you want it stamped with the correct shape/size stamps. Do your research.

-Craig

rms337
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Re: Looking for feedback on this VIN and repair

#15

Post by rms337 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:03 am

i did not upload a pic of the carb, air cleaner and manifold. they are in a box, but at least kept with the bike. Thoughts on value with all these issues?

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