belly number pictures?

Identifaction of VIN, case numbers and cylinder heads
NightShift
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Re: belly number pictures?

#31

Post by NightShift » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:19 pm

Dear Steve,
We all know too well about bad people. I wont even trust the man in the mirror. But tell me please how if you show your motorcycle numbers on the internet it isnt any different than daylight in front of a cell phone. If I was thinking up a bogus number to stamp hypothetically of course I wouldnt choose one thats on the books.

Respectfully,



Ohio-Rider
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Re: belly number pictures?

#32

Post by Ohio-Rider » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:43 am

NightShift wrote:We all know too well about bad people. I wont even trust the man in the mirror. But tell me please how if you show your motorcycle numbers on the internet it isnt any different than daylight in front of a cell phone.
When posting your VIN on the internet it is viewed by a far larger group of people as versus the number of people it is viewed by in a normal day or maybe a year as you ride it around. The larger the viewing area the more chance one of those folks is just looking for a legitimate VIN number to stamp on their not so legitimate motorcycle with no other thought than to sell it.
NightShift wrote: If I was thinking up a bogus number to stamp hypothetically of course I wouldnt choose one thats on the books.
What better number than one that is already on the books. That “number” has a history with a state DMV and adds legitimacy to the crooks sting. DMV mentality can sometimes borderline something from the Simpson’s cartoons. We give them too much credit at times. I'd be willing to bet that there are alot more motorcyles running around with "bad" numbers and "good" titles than we all would like to think about.
-Steve

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Re: belly number pictures?

#33

Post by FlatHeadSix » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:58 am

Bosheff wrote:To Speeding Big Twin: The # boss on the pic you posted looks kinda funky to me. Looks like it's been resurfaced. An unmolested # boss is not perfectly flat or square on the edges or corners as your photo depicts. They are somewhat radiused and more gently flowing in my opinion. The top of the boss is also very wavy, leading me to believe it has been tampered with. Just my opinion....bosheff
After looking at all the pictures and comments I got curious and took another look at my '49. I don't think my VIN pad has ever been touched by anything other than cleaning supplies (and as you can see that doesn't happen very often :roll: ). My VIN pad is very well defined with crisp square edges and sharp corners, the numbers are consistent with the style and font used on the other '49s pictured: open top 4s, straight back 9, serifs, and the usual slight flair at the bottom of the F and top of the L.

I would have to say that mine is a very good example of what a good number should look like.

jmho

mike
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Re: belly number pictures?

#34

Post by boxtriker » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:28 am

:D i can see the same man that stamped Triumph numbers over hear on 40's-50's-60's bike's.had a mate in the USA putting wonky numbers on as well letters all up an down must have both been on the Gin :D :D :D a bit off thread but i know some one was collecting VIN numbers this is my 1960 FLH. the bike came to the uk in 1993 and was well looked over both side's of the water before getting a uk 1960 REG plate. and it looks ok to me. but sad to say all that is left of the original bike is the gearbox and motor bottom end :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: belly number pictures?

#35

Post by Panacea » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:45 pm

I would have to say that mine is a very good example of what a good number should look like.

jmho

mike
The numbers boss also has the same texture as the rest of the case, the ones that look like they were polished look very suspicious...

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Re: belly number pictures?

#36

Post by NightShift » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:56 pm

Dear Steve,
If it was just about how many people see it then better never go to any big meets because everybodys taking pictures. If its on the books then a registered number is the LAST number a scoundrel wants to tattoo. He wants one that has been off the books for years and years.
And you really havent told me how my bike is going to get stolen through the internet if I show my vin.

Respectfully,

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Re: belly number pictures?

#37

Post by steinauge » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:00 pm

The numbers on that 60 look pretty iffy-thats neither here nor there in his case.I have seen a lot of engine numbers in the course of the last 45 years or so and I would say better than half of them looked questionable.The problem I have noticed here is the (in general) utter ignorance of the various state agencies in this regard and their complete unwillingness to learn.About ten years ago a local police agency brought a bunch of photos of H.D VINs by the place and asked me to look at them. I did as they asked and then offered to conduct a seminar(free) for them on what to look for.They were not interested at all.My solution is a nice,clean 1975 CB750 Honda-I ride it during all the motorcycle events and thereby become invisible.

john HD
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Re: belly number pictures?

#38

Post by john HD » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:50 pm

is it just me, or when you see a set of polished cases offered for sale do you say "i think i'll stay away from that set..."

it seems the number jobs more often than not come with the custom shine.

or am i wrong?

john

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Re: belly number pictures?

#39

Post by Bosheff » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:21 am

I dare say that as time goes on, yer gonna see more and more examples of buggered up cases. Ya got guys sellin # stamps on E-Bay that are spacific to the year yer tryin to replicate, whether the cases are from that time period or not. Of course these are advertised for restoration purposes only. What a line a shit. Just cause yer restorin, or repairin, that don't make it kosher to emboss yer own frame or mill. I'm gonna guess way over 50% of the cases being sold with title or reciept are restamps, and it's gonna git worse as time goes on, and there's still a demand for these parts. Not good for the sport, but it will insure the value of the real thing in the future. The authorities usually don't know shit about it, and in damn near 40 years of doin H-D's, with few exceptions, I've never seen anyone that's been busted for possession of parts with altered VIN's go down very hard. It's like anything else. If there's a buck to be made, disinterested bystanders will be attracted into it. Don't support these thievin S.O.B.'s. Learn as much as ya can about the numberin process used back then, pay attention to the looks of the type font, and the # boss surface, and try to make an educated and informed decision. The more ya know bout anything, the better off ya are. A professional will try to cover all the bases when tatooin a set of cases, but amatures usually screw-up somewhere along the line, and alot of times it's very obvious. Teach yerself to recognise the good from the bad and it will lessen yer odds fer gittin burned....bosheff

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Re: belly number pictures?

#40

Post by Cotten » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:31 pm

Bosheff wrote:
"A professional will try to cover all the bases when tatooin a set of cases,..."

I beg your pardon!
A true professional will not commit a felony.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

...Cotten

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Re: belly number pictures?

#41

Post by FlatHeadSix » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:47 pm

john HD wrote:is it just me, or when you see a set of polished cases offered for sale do you say "i think i'll stay away from that set..."

it seems the number jobs more often than not come with the custom shine.

or am i wrong?

john
I don't think you're wrong at all John. A lot of the polished cases were just lame attempts to make them "pretty", but many of them were also lame attempts to cover something up. I put the polished cases in the same category, for whatever reason they may have been polished, they're junk. Once you polish it there's no bringing it back, and if it has been polished first and then CHROMED (OOH) its the double whammy.

And Cotten, give Bosheff a break, when he said "Professional" I think he was referring to somebody that thought they were an expert crook, not a legitimate businessman.

mike

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Re: belly number pictures?

#42

Post by Bosheff » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:42 pm

Thankx Mike. Ya took the words right outta my mouth....bosheff

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Re: belly number pictures?

#43

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:56 pm

Mike, thanks for posting your 49 FL serial number. It appears good to me.

boxtriker, thanks for posting your 60 FLH serial number. I’m one of the members who collects serial numbers and the characters in yours are consistent with some of the 1960 Panhead examples I have. Also, your serial number complies with the even/odd code used by H-D in the 1960s.

steinauge, it seems you and I disagree regarding the 60 FLH serial number. Please explain how you reached your conclusion. Eric

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Re: belly number pictures?

#44

Post by Underdoggie » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:42 pm

With all this conversation about 49's I am curious to know what you guys think a 49 engine (not put together) and title is worth. Lets say for the sake of conversation the cases are legit and the title is good. What is that engine worth. I know the only way I will ever get another panhead is to start this way and I might just be able to get this one. How much? just the motor? Let me know what you think?

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Re: belly number pictures?

#45

Post by Bosheff » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:59 pm

There are way to many variables in yer question to give an accurate answer. You say the numbers are good. That's good. What about the belly #'s? Do they match each other? Add if they do. Are the belly numbers consistant with the title year? Add if they are. Are all the pieces/parts consistant with a 49 engine. To a purist this is important. Have the cases been repaired. Deduct if they have. If the engine is assembled, are there receipts available for the internal parts? Unless I am buying an engine from my mother, I always figure the internals are junk, because most of the time in my experience, they are. What does the buyer plan to do with this engine? Restoration, rat bike, bobber, rider, coffee table, mail box, door stop? If the numbers say F, FL, FLH, is it really a 74, or is it stroked out of this world? Pre 55 means flat bottom end. Deduct unless yer doin a restoration. By now you should be gettin the picture. This is how I look at a motor purchase, and I'm bettin a good number of other buyers are too. How much for a new S&S mill? How bout an Accura? And last but not least, I'm a firm believer that anything is worth whatever you can get for it on a given day....bosheff

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