belly number pictures?

Identifaction of VIN, case numbers and cylinder heads
panz4ever
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Re: belly number pictures?

#46

Post by panz4ever » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:03 pm

Underdoggie wrote:With all this conversation about 49's I am curious to know what you guys think a 49 engine (not put together) and title is worth. Lets say for the sake of conversation the cases are legit and the title is good. What is that engine worth. I know the only way I will ever get another panhead is to start this way and I might just be able to get this one. How much? just the motor? Let me know what you think?
You see good cases w/ title good on ebay for 2+ large. Think that if the motor is apart you have a better chance of inspecting components rather than having the motor buttoned up and telling you his best friend Ed did all the work and Ed is a master at his game. Never heard that pre-55 cases are worth less (course I am partial to my 49 EL), but I do think any motor is worth what someone is willing to sell them for and what someone is willing to pay for them.

How complete of a motor are you talking about? Most heads are in need of repair. Most cases unless they have been sitting on a shelf their entire life will need some work to make them whole. There are masters out there that do that work...Don at HeadHog, Tom Shaw at Creekside... two I have used and swear by. That being said the work is not cheap.

If work has been done, ask for receipts. To me no receipts means no work done and the story is bullshit.

Last and most importantly, inspect the VIN and belly numbers closely. There was some dip who was trying to unload a set of 55-57 cases that were stamped with 52 belly numbers and a 52 VIN. That my friend is bogus. they sell stamps on ebay so there is always some schmuck that will try and convince you what he has is legit when it is not. Mis matched belly numbers generally mean that somewhere one case got screwed up and the owner found a correct (or NOT) case to mate it with.



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Re: belly number pictures?

#47

Post by Underdoggie » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:07 pm

[quote="Bosheff"]There are way to many variables in yer question to give an accurate answer.
Yeah your right, I better put a little more detail to my question. I'll do it later, Im in the hospital and just got moved into a regular room out of ICU, I was feeling a little more clear headed earlier in the day but now dont feel so good. talk to ya later.
Underdoggie on the mend

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Re: belly number pictures?

#48

Post by Bosheff » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:14 am

Hope ya feel better shortly, Underdoggie. I just got over doin the hospital thing, myself. Happy healin'....bosheff

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Re: belly number pictures?

#49

Post by alwaysamopar » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:16 am

Damm You guys have me all scared now I researched the vin numbers on mine and the belly numbers and everything looked good So i bought it If i knew how to scratch out some of the vin on a posted pic Id post them to let you guys see if they look legit

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Re: belly number pictures?

#50

Post by steve_wood » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:50 am

Just put a piece of tape over the last two digits and take the photo !

good luck,

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Re: belly number pictures?

#51

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:16 pm

Bosheff wrote:Hope ya feel better shortly, Underdoggie. I just got over doin the hospital thing, myself. Happy healin'....bosheff
Well, I got home from the hospital yesterday but dont feel up to much. The 49FL I had mentioned is a buddy of mine and no way will he sell it. He has had it in several different configs, and has even had a photo spread in a couple of magazines. He said he to well known by it from the last Smoke Out so he is going to keep it. I am in the process of helping him repair the case. I just thought it might be a good project for me. He told me about a 56 here in the area that he has seen. He told me it belonged to this guy's dad and has not run for a few years and is a real 70's chopper type with a king/queen seat and sissy bar about 3 feet high like the easy rider bike but no cut frame, just 6 over tubes. That might be a possibility and I will use some of the knowledge from this thread when I go look at it. We will see
Underdoggie

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Re: belly number pictures?

#52

Post by RUBONE » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:37 am

Get well soon Underdoggie and good luck on the '56.
Robbie

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Re: belly number pictures?

#53

Post by Mose » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:45 pm

Wow! After reading this thread I started looking at the 'belly' of my 51 Pan and found nothing but 'Scrapes': :shock:

Image

Then after I got everything thorougly cleaned I found them! 8)

Image

If anybody wants to see what I started with check it out here:
http://lonewolfscycle.com/1951pan.htm

Panhead Pete
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Re: belly number pictures?

#54

Post by Panhead Pete » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:53 am

Speeding Big Twin wrote:Radar, H-D Panhead belly numbers usually consist of three sections:
I have a 65 FLH wih two different year belly numbers but the sequential numbers are the same. The left case has 65-xxxx and the right case has 64-xxxx. what does this mean? The bike has a 64 trans which I always thought someone changed but maybe it's stock? Panhead Pete

1. The first numeric character represents engine size where 1 usually indicates 74ci and 2 usually indicates 61ci.
2. As previously noted, the next two numeric characters indicate the year of line-boring/machining and if the two belly numbers match each other in full then the cases were line-bored as a matching pair. But crankcases were not necessarily cast in the line-bore year and on the inside of some Panhead case halves there is a casting date code which indicates the month and year of casting. Also, sometimes the model year will be later than the line-bore year—for example, an early-1950 model may have cases with 1949 belly numbers.
3. The last four or five numeric characters indicate the sequential position of the crankcases in the machining production run.

I notice you identified your model as an FL. But both your belly numbers begin with 2 and as I mentioned above, 2 usually indicates an engine size of 61ci. And a 61ci Panhead engine is an E-series. However, I have run across this sort of thing before and although there can be legitimate reasons for H-D’s apparent discrepancies I’m curious as to how widespread this was. You said Wisconsin restamped the cases and the bike was now titled as a 1968 homebuilt but did the engine start out as an FL? Eric

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Re: belly number pictures?

#55

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:57 am

Panhead Pete wrote: I have a 65 FLH wih two different year belly numbers but the sequential numbers are the same. The left case has 65-xxxx and the right case has 64-xxxx. what does this mean? The bike has a 64 trans which I always thought someone changed but maybe it's stock? Panhead Pete
Pete, welcome to the forum. We may need photos.

When H-D machined/line-bored pairs of production cases at the factory the belly numbers (BNs) matched each other completely, including the year portions. It sounds like you may have a mismatch consisting of a 64 R-H case and a 65 left case that coincidentally have the same sequence numbers as each other. We often see mismatched cases due to different things occurring with one owner or another over the years. It's unusual that your sequence numbers match each other but it may just be a coincidence. Clear photos of both BNs may tell us more.

Originally a 64 R-H case had a boss on top near the front for a relay bracket whereas 65s had no boss. Is there a boss on your R-H case? If not then is there evidence it was removed? Does your R-H case have provision for a tappet screen etc? I think all 64 R-H cases had provision for the screen but not all 65s had it, only some 65s. What sort of gear cover have you got? Originally the 64 gear cover had four horizontal ribs but the 65 cover had no ribs and the 65 cover was much beefier than the 64.

For FLHs you’ll often see a sans serif capital H stamped on top of each case near the rear engine mounting bolt holes. Have you got an H on each case? If so then that won’t help us but if you’ve got an H on the left case and a 7 on the R-H case then that’s an indication of a mismatch because in the 1960s a 7 indicated an FL as opposed to an FLH.

It doesn’t make sense for a 1964 trans to be originally teamed with a 1965 left crankcase. At least two types of trans cases were used for 1964 model Panheads: one had casting number 121-35 underneath and the other had casting number 34703 64. Which one have you got? Neither of them had the ears to accommodate the aluminium inner primary first introduced for 1965 model Pans. (The 65 trans case had casting number 34703 65.)

For 65 Pans the engine sprocket shaft and trans mainshaft are both longer (by about 1/4”? 3/8”?) than their 1964 counterparts and that was due to the 65s having an electric start as well as kick start. But 64s had kick-only and used tin primaries. I read somewhere that it’s possible to run a 65 left case and 65 engine sprocket shaft with a 64-earlier trans mainshaft if a solid engine sprocket, not a compensator sprocket assembly, is used the wrong way around. Then the primary chain apparently lines up more or less IIRC.

Can you post photos please:
1. Serial number (SN)
2. Both BNs
3. R-H case
4. If present, the Hs or 7s on the top of the cases.

If you’re concerned about the SN and BNs being shown on the internet then just cover some of the sequence characters. And I sent you a PM.
Eric

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Re: belly number pictures?

#56

Post by 58flh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:02 pm

I have an original title for my 1958flh/-After 12yrs.I rebuilt the whole bike due to hi-milage!-So it was not in use for 20-months!.When I went to register it again--THEY WOULD NOT DO IT!--I had to make an appointment & a guy from NJDMV came to my house & looked at the bike!--In addition I had to send 6-pics. of various angles & mail them to DMV!--After almost 2 months I was granted a new recon title-(reconstructed)-& its dated 1992 I believe. On the Title --obviously it states Reconstructed & my original numbers from original title,but with a SR in front of them.--This is NJ!---RICHIE

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