Fram Numbers

Identification information of frames and transmissions
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Dirk Diggler
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Fram Numbers

#1

Post by Dirk Diggler » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:00 pm

HI my question i s about my frame numbers on my 64 pan. the numbers stamped on the frame(by the way had hell of a time finding them they were hidden under several coats of paint) it is stamped 3G but reading other post folks always the letter then the year like G3??? i will upload pic's and other numbers i have found.( tree ,belly and case. let me know what you think?? thank's BillyP
belly numbers right.JPG
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Re: Fram Numbers

#2

Post by RUBONE » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm

All that I can see looks good. The frame number can be either digit or letter first, they appear both ways. The belly numbers look good for going with the frame number, the July '63 frame with a low production engine (210th unit line bored) and the low VIN number. Remember with the odd even rule the numbers for 64 started at 2000. the B prefix is also low. It looks like most of that bike came together from the factory, a nice change from most.
Robbie

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Re: Fram Numbers

#3

Post by UPSROD » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:16 pm

You might also look for the code stamped on the front of the trans. and the left side of the frame neck.

Panacea
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Re: Fram Numbers

#4

Post by Panacea » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:58 pm

Hi Dirk, my mostly original 64 FL28xx has belly numbers about 87 higher than yours. I can't see all of your vin but it looks like I may be a bit higher on that too. I haven't looked at my frame code. My lower tree code is B6591 and the front of the tranny has #B960. I don't know how the tree codes or the tranny code numbers relate to the vin...Mike

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Re: Fram Numbers

#5

Post by Dirk Diggler » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:14 am

thanks UPSROD i was able to find the frame neck number(B6163) and the trans number(B941) vin is (64FLH 27XX)thank's

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Re: Fram Numbers

#6

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:36 pm

Billy, I notice your trans has additional ID beginning with B. For Big Twin trans cases in the 1960s the B was used across at least three years: 1963–65. After looking at the photos in your other thread I think your trans will have casting number 121-35 as opposed to 34703 64. But I don’t know exactly when the 34703 64 case was introduced, meaning I don’t know if all or only some of the 1964 model Pans had the 34703 64 case. Also, some of the 34703 64 cases have date codes but not all of them. Anyway, could you please check the underneath of your case and let us know what casting number and date code you find. (You can check by sliding a motorcycle mirror under there if need be.)

Has the kicker cover got a level plug in it? If so then that could indicate the cover is 1978 or later if H-D or it could be an aftermarket cover.

Notice the number 5 stamped on your left case near the front bolt. The best guess we have for that at this stage is that it may have been done by an inspector at the Harley factory for one reason or another. Two other numbers stamped in that area on Panhead cases are 6 and 9.

Stamped on top of each case half near the rear engine mounting bolts you may find a sans serif H and they indicate an FLH engine as opposed to an FL. (A 1964 FL would probably have a certain type of sans serif 7 in that position on each case.)
Eric

Dirk Diggler
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Re: Fram Numbers

#7

Post by Dirk Diggler » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:37 pm

found some other numbers under the tranny i am going to try to post pic again for some reason the did not post the other day? anyone know what they mean? the pic's were taken using a mirror so they will be a** backwards Thank's
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Re: Fram Numbers

#8

Post by Panacea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:52 pm

Feb. 63? I haven't looked at the underside of my tranny for numbers but I'm guessing mine will be the same or a bit later..Mike

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Re: Fram Numbers

#9

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:53 am

Thanks for the photos, Billy. A case cast in Feb 63 may have been used in a 1963 model bike. However, Harley did not always use things straight away—for example, my own trans case has code 10 60 indicating it was cast in October 1960 but its additional stamped-on ID indicates it is a 1962 model case. And another forum member has a case with similar markings: 1960 casting but additional ID indicating a 1962 model trans.

The example below has date code 2 63 and it also has casting number 121-35 as yours does:

Image Image

I don’t know what is represented by the indented 1E but it may indicate an inspector. Some cases have a lone 1, a lone 2, or 2E.

The next case was cast in December 63 (12-63) and has casting number 34703 64:

Image Image

Notice on its left side the bosses for the cover screws extend further down than they do on the Feb 63 casting. I used the December 63 example because it shows the difference better but other photos I have show this later left-side type of casting appeared as early as October 63 castings.

As I mentioned above, the problem is that I don’t know exactly when the 34703 64 case was introduced, meaning I don’t know if all or only some of the 1964 model Pans had the 34703 64 case. And although some 34703 64 cases have date codes, some do not, so that doesn’t help either.

Therefore it’s unclear whether or not your case was originally used for a 1964 model bike. If you wanted to find out you could contact Pete Simet at H-D Customer Service on 414-343-4056 and tell him your serial number, belly numbers, and all three sets of additional ID (trans case, left side of frame steering head, lower triple clamp). Then Pete may be able to check Harley records and tell you if all those numbers were originally assigned to the one machine.
Eric

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Re: Fram Numbers

#10

Post by Dirk Diggler » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:10 pm

thank's Eric i will b licking a stamp today and sending it to Harley Davidson Customer Service
3700 West Juneau Avenue
P.O. Box 653
Milwaukee, WI 53201 0653
ATTN Restoration Department
Peter J Simet Vehicle Identification Specialist
i will let you know what he has to say plus i will have it in writing

Dirk Diggler
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Re: Fram Numbers

#11

Post by Dirk Diggler » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:10 pm

received my letter from pete today. everything is a match!!!! copy= This letter is in response to your letter requesting information on a 1964 FLH Harley-Davidson with a VIN: 64FLH27XX that the records indicate was assembled on August 5, 1963 as a FLHF model. The individual records as to color, dealer it was shipped to, and first owner information are no longer available so I am unable to provide you with that information, however I can tell you approximately 2,725 of the FLH models were made in the 1964 model year. The frame, crankcase, fork and transmission numbers you provided are all original to this motorcycle. The frame date code of G 3 would indicate a frame that was produced in June of 1963.
The color options that were available for the 1964 FLH are Black w/White tank panels, Fiesta Red W/White tank panels, Optional Colors were Hi-fi Blue with White tank panels and Hi-fi Red wi White tank panels. Police models were offered in Birch white or Black. The 1964 FLH came standard with a 74 cubic inch, OHV V-Twin engine and four speed foot shift transmission, chrome handlebars and chrome "super quiet" dual exhaust.
I hope the information I have provided will be of help to you. If we can be of further service, please contact us at 414-343-4056.

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Re: Fram Numbers

#12

Post by Hog54 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:39 am

Why does the F look like an E?

Dirk Diggler
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Re: Fram Numbers

#13

Post by Dirk Diggler » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:46 am

i just looked at the pic and i see what you mean. then i looked at the bike and it is clearly a F. i guess its a shadow or something ????

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Re: Fram Numbers

#14

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:00 pm

Billy, that is great news from Pete and thanks for keeping us informed. Your letter helps confirm that the 121-35 type of trans case was indeed used for some 1964 model Pans.

However, there seems to be a minor error in that letter because it says the date code would indicate a frame produced in June of 1963. But G does not indicate June. G is the seventh letter and it indicates July, as Robbie mentioned earlier.
Eric

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Re: Fram Numbers

#15

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:04 pm

Hog54, I sent you a PM.
Eric

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