Letter on the right motor mount.

Identification information of frames and transmissions
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willlhunting
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Letter on the right motor mount.

#1

Post by willlhunting » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:54 pm

I indeed wonder what wants to say the letter E on the 2nd photo.
I looked on the forum and on the internet but I found nothing.
If somebody in an idea.
My frame has no indication on top motor mount.
frame2.jpg
frame1.jpg
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VPH-D
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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#2

Post by VPH-D » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:39 pm

Yours looks like an earlier frame that would have no motor mount markings, judging by the small lower front motor mount.
I' m not sure anybody knows what all the various letters stamped on frames mean...
VPH-D

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#3

Post by Bigincher » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:28 pm

I've seen a lot of frames go through the shop at Wasco Frame, and they all have a letter stamped in the right-side foot control boss portion of the motor mount casting.
We always joke about it; if it's a B we say 'Bob' was the factory guy that worked on that frame, if the letter R is stamped there, we say 'Rob' worked on it....
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But we have no idea what it really means. Maybe Eric ("Speeding Big Twin") has some input.
Maybe Palmer has already answered in his NEW book....!


The frame in the photo must be a '48; they all break in the same place on the front motor mount. :wink:
(But if you really want to date the frame, it wouldn't be hard, with just a little more information or a few more photos.....)

willlhunting
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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#4

Post by willlhunting » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:55 pm

Some photos on my blog:
http://panhead.canalblog.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go to cadre(frame in french) .

Thank you for your response.

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#5

Post by willlhunting » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:29 pm

I took some additional photos on my blog because there is no limitation concerning the size of the images.
You can answer in English on the blog, I shall be very satisfied to read to you.

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#6

Post by Bigincher » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:40 am

I went to your blog site, I see it's in French.
I couldn't figure out if there was a way I could switch it to English, so I had to leave. Sorry....

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#7

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:51 pm

I do not know what E indicates. A while ago on eBay there was a frame with 3 on it:
fram1.jpg
It was a 1958–64 style frame and the seller said 3 meant it was manufactured in 1963. I don’t think so. Apparently he did not realise there was probably a date code on the top engine mount. 8)

I've seen what looks like 0 (zero) stamped in the corresponding position on the left side of a frame made in June 1957 but I have no idea what that means either. My best guess would be that E, 3 and 0 were done by an inspector in the same way we think inspectors used numbers and/or letters on crankcases and transmission cases.
Eric
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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#8

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:53 pm

Tom, there has long been a rumour about the letter P being stamped on the right-hand side, or perhaps the left, of frames used for 1949 model Panheads originally equipped with a springer. But if you've seen a few different letters on the R-H side then that may put an end to the rumour because it would seem odd to apply a P there to indicate the frame required a springer if that same position was also used for other letters for whatever reason.

A second rumour has it that a P was stamped on the frame mount that accommodated the rear stud for the left footboard and again this was supposed to be for 1949 Pans originally fitted with a springer. But the problem would be how to authenticate it. Anyway, please let us know if you run across any such Ps.
Eric

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#9

Post by Bigincher » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:04 am

Eric, I was at Wasco a few days ago, and he's got a nice selection of rigid frames in there at the moment.
I'll be going back next week, I'll do a tally on those frames and record what letters I find and the year of the frame.

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#10

Post by willlhunting » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:58 am

I understand that some people have difficulty with the French.
I created a new blog with the two languages, of course I helped myself translator. This is not perfect, there probably has mistakes but I did what I could.
http://panhead51.over-blog.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#11

Post by Scrap » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:45 pm

I really enjoy your blog. Keep it up.
Je apprécie vraiment votre blog. Continuez.

(google tanslate, I don't speak French)
(google tanslate, je ne parle pas français)

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#12

Post by willlhunting » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:59 pm

Thank you for your support, do not hesitate to put comments in English on the blog.

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#13

Post by Bigincher » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:57 pm

Speeding Big Twin wrote:Tom, there has long been a rumour about the letter P being stamped on the right-hand side, or perhaps the left, of frames used for 1949 model Panheads originally equipped with a springer. But if you've seen a few different letters on the R-H side then that may put an end to the rumour because it would seem odd to apply a P there to indicate the frame required a springer if that same position was also used for other letters for whatever reason.

A second rumour has it that a P was stamped on the frame mount that accommodated the rear stud for the left footboard and again this was supposed to be for 1949 Pans originally fitted with a springer. But the problem would be how to authenticate it. Anyway, please let us know if you run across any such Ps.
Eric
Hello Eric,
I've forgotten about this subject, sorry. I will get back to you with what I find out when I go to Wasco. Should be going there this week.
I've got your email address, I'll get ahold of you that way if you don't mind.....
Tom

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#14

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:09 pm

Thanks, Tom. Via email in December 2012 I asked Bruce if he had any info about the P being stamped on the frame. I told him the two locations I’d heard of and that neither claim had been proved but I didn’t receive a response from him. In his SE, Bruce says the P is stamped into the frame in a non-visible area although he adds that it has not been verified if all 1949 springer-equipped OHV frames have it.

Thanks to Herb Wagner mentioning 1949 model layout sheets on CAI a few years ago, we know P was stamped on at least some 1949 Panhead engines at the factory but I don’t know how Bruce confirmed that it was applied to some (all?) frames. In fact, I don't even know if he did confirm it. 8)
Even though I don’t entirely agree with Bruce’s viewpoint about revealing or not revealing certain things, I think he should have explained where he got his info regarding the P on frames.
Eric

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Re: Letter on the right motor mount.

#15

Post by Bigincher » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:48 pm

Eric, I spent the day at Wasco yesterday, and I'll be there more frequently now.
He usually always has a selection of frames 'in the works', so I took a few minutes to see what I could see..........

He has a '37 and a '38 being worked on, and they have no stamps on the motor mount castings. Maybe that area should be call 'foot control mounts', and the stamps appear on either side- sometimes the left side, sometimes the right side.

Here's what I saw..............

A 1946 with an "X".....................
frame-x.jpg


A 1952 with an H.......................
frame-h.jpg


And another 1952, this one has a 'Double C"............

frame-cc.jpg


Now here's one that's a little more interesting. Also a 1952, this one has a C within a C..............

frame-cc2.jpg


This one is even more unusual- a Greek Cross. This is on a pristine and unmolested 1948.

frame-+.jpg


And finally, this one on a 1954. What do you call it? It looks like a pie with a piece taken out of it. Wasco dubbed it "PacMan".............
frame-pie.jpg


These are the only examples in his shop at present. In the past he has seen a number of various letters of the alphabet.
I think the rumor that the letter 'P' signifies a sidecar machine is unfounded. If a letter stamped into the foot control boss of the motor mount casting signifies something, then what does it signify..??
If a 'P' means sidecar, what does the Greek Cross signify? How about the "PacMan"...?

Wasco has a theory, and it's only a theory. He thinks it's possible that it's something like an inspector's stamps of approval. The frame is fabricated, then ran through a series of fixtures and jigs to check tolerances, fitment, and accuracy. If it passes, the inspector stamps it. That's only a theory, but Wasco has seen as many frames come through his door than most any other shop anywhere. And aside from the early knuckle frames, they all have a stamp of some kind.

I hope this isn't a hijack of this thread, but I think it falls under the Title as originally posted, and I hope the information is useful in some way.
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