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Frame year and #'s

Identification information of frames and transmissions
Bosheff
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Re: Frame year and #'s

#16

Post by Bosheff » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:43 pm

Frame lug under the tranny on the right side of frame should be present for all 58-69 frames. I may be wrong, but the casting # at the bottom of the left frame down tube didn't change til 68, which may explain the -58 casting #. Frame lug on right side of frame was for the optional frame jack....bosheff



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Re: Frame year and #'s

#17

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Bosheff, what makes you think the lower left number didn't change until 68? What would cause that?

In June we both posted in a thread where I mentioned 47654 65 on the lower left usually indicated 1965-72 but that it also appeared on some early-73 models. And obviously the 65 suffix was part of my reasoning. Later in the thread I posted the photo below from a 69 model:
Lowerleft1969.jpg
My photo shows the left casting has the boss which the 58-64 oil tank support bracket sits on and the tab to accommodate a tin inner primary even though neither of those things were required after 64.

We know Harley sometimes leaves unrequired things on castings and I figured that happened for 1965. But if the number didn't change til 68 then why would H-D still leave those two things in place at that time? We know Harley sold replacement frames but anyone with a pre-65 bike wouldn't want a 65-later type frame as a replacement for obvious reasons. Eric
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Re: Frame year and #'s

#18

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:05 pm

Cogburn and Bosheff, today I rang a mate of mine who owns a 67 Shovel. The frame is powdercoated so he couldn't see the additional ID on the left side of the steering head and the tanks are on so the date code is hidden. But the upper rear castings are 65-later type, the usual key-operated steering head lock is in place and there's no reinforcement gusset on the left rear downtube so the indication is that the frame is definitely somewhere from 65 to early-68. He said the lower left casting number has a 58 suffix. The third character was the only one that was a bit hard to make out and he thought it was 0 but it will probably be 6. That means the whole number is 47653-58 and that is the number I had thought was only used for 1958-64.

As I mentioned previously, some left side castings have a 65 suffix so I've been thinking that should indicate they were introduced for 1965. But obviously now that doesn't seem to be the case after all. I'll keep looking and post again if I find more info. Eric

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Re: Frame year and #'s

#19

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:30 am

I contacted a member of HDForums.com with whom I've discussed the BT swingarm frame a couple of times. He owns a 68 Shovel and had said previously that his frame had a gusset plate attached forward of the left rear downtube and that it appeared to be factory-installed so that indicated late-68. It also has an undrilled padlock boss which is further indication of late-68. Today I received a photo (thanks, Jim) showing the casting number on the lower left section of that frame and it has the 58 suffix. (Jim was unaware of the 65 suffix so I sent photos and info.)

Two questions I don't have answers to:
1. Exactly when did Harley change to the 65 suffix?
2. Why did Harley use the 65 suffix instead of one that indicated the proper year of change/introduction?

All suggestions and/or ideas welcome. Eric

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Re: Frame year and #'s

#20

Post by Bosheff » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:44 pm

Experience has led me to believe that with H-D's, there really are really no specifics, only generalities. As time passes, it is even more difficult to document originality as unmolested examples become fewer and fewer, and forgeries appear from nowhere with the intention of being passed off as original....bosheff

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Re: Frame year and #'s

#21

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:10 am

Bosheff, 'm still interested in hearing exactly why you indicated above that the casting # at the bottom of the left frame down tube didn't change til 68. If you think it changed in 1968 then what do you think led to that change? And what do you think the number changed to? Eric

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