Star Hub Pros/converting star hubs to timkens...

Wheels, hubs and tires
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Dilby

Star Hub Pros/converting star hubs to timkens...

#1

Post by Dilby » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:42 pm

Does anyone know if StarHub Pros is still in business??? His website is no longer valid.

The guy did a conversion to timkens on one of my star hubs...excellent work, I might add.

And...Im looking to do a couple more...Does anyone know of someone else who does this???

Thanks.



Guest

#2

Post by Guest » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:41 am

I have seen several posts stating they are no longer in business.
45 Parts Depot has internals for this conversion, you will have to get the machining done.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#3

Post by Cotten » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:31 am

45PartsDepot's solution is very well engineered.

But if you must bore the hub anyway....why not just install a H-D 45" male rod race into the worn side (the brake side hardly wears) and return everything to stock components?

I enjoy re-inventing the wheel as much as anyone.

...Cotten

shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#4

Post by shsj » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:49 am

Dilby,

I did a set of these for my 49 pan and I'm gearing up to do a bunch of these after the new year with the same Timken tapered bearings that Star Hub Pros did. I will be making fixtures so the more sets I can get the better to save setup time. Drop me a line if you want me to throw yours into the pot.

Anyone else interested please let me know as well and I'm also looking for some good cores (OEM only!) if anyone has them, preferably not chrome plated but I'll take what I can get.

email is msockwel@aol.com

thanks,
shsj

wantapanrealbad
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:21 am
Location: Eastern Tennessee

#5

Post by wantapanrealbad » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:32 am

I need two hubs done, no hurry though. I could give an extra (non plated hub) as partial payment if interested.

Thanks,

Joe

shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#6

Post by shsj » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:22 pm

Just an update... still working on the star hub Timken conversion in between all the christmas shopping. I will have a drawing ready soon as I get some remaining OEM parts together which I mostly have. I also have gotten my hands on some hubs to start with so you guys out there won't be the first. I'm trying to keep the cost down but there is some cash outlay involved so I need to do a few to break even and come out of it with a set of my own.

If it goes well, I might set up a website (turns out it's really not that hard) and get into it but only to fund the resto of my 49 pan... seems like a neat way to do that without the OL' harrassing me.

For everyone who contacted me already, please hang tight. For anyone else out there who is interested please drop me a line and let me know if you would like to have the conversion done.

thanks,
shsj

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

#7

Post by fourthgear » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:50 pm

If you are going to change the hubs any way , why not go to the conversion's that are available at JP cycle and the like . I have them on my 58 framed Pan and you can't tell that they don't have the OEM shim-able bearings.Your star screws on the same way as org. Yes there is a lay down of money at first ,but parts are available at any bearing place .I have over 10,000 miles on mine and they work fine .

shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#8

Post by shsj » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:19 pm

Fourthgear,

There are two major issues with the CCI Timken star hubs, 1. is that you can't use your stock pan axle, spacers and sleeves because you need to come up with an axle that is .750 all the way down and 2. I have heard before that the catalogue timken hubs have a reputation for coming apart because by the time you bore the hub for the 1.781" race it becomes eggshell thin.

The conversion I am working on (and the same conversion Star Hub Pros did) uses a smaller bearing on the star side to keep the "meat" in the hub and a spacer to retain the stock axle diameter.

By the way, for the timken star hub conversion I am working on the bearings are readily available over the counter. I know because I have been pricing them.

More than that, you get to keep your OEM hubs.

~shsj

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#9

Post by Cotten » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:29 pm

You guys either have too much money, or just like to make things complicated.

Here's a pic of a 45" rod race sitting where 90% of spalled hubs need repair. (Often the fat side is unblemished.)
The ID is identical, so you just counter bore the hub for a press fit, and be done with it.
(Use the wider male rod race, so that the edge becomes the bearing surface for the thrust assembly; I didn't have one to picture.)

No other hardware is changed, and it can be rebuilt with oversized rollers indefinitely. (The race can be removed with a stick welder and replaced if ever such a time should come that it has been honed beyond the available oversizes.)

Food for thought: Both Henderson and SportScouts (and probably other marques) used conical bearings long before H-D came out with their star hub design. H-D stuck with their durable design for three decades, long after the other marques died.

Timkens are a PITA even when the hubs were designed for them.

....Cotten
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shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#10

Post by shsj » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:09 pm

Cotten,

I hear ya'... but of the hubs I have and the hubs I've seen, both sides races are shot. Not just the star side. I thought about just offering to do the fix as you suggested actually and I have heard (although yet to confirm) that you can use a Sportster race for the brake side as it is close but needs to be finished with a tool post grinder. This gets complicated because the grinding wheel is going to back right into the thrust ring that is pressed into the brake side, just a little bit of a PITA. Then there is more time because the hub has to come out of the chuck, go to the press to get the new race, then back into the lathe and center checked again for finish grinding. Definitely do-able, but a PITA setting up.

Bottom line is this goes by the hour for me and it gets time consuming to do both sides like that. That means it's going to cost you. Then you have to fork over for a new axle sleeve for the ID races if they are pitted, and have the measuring equipment to set up the rollers which the average joe doesn't have. Are you really going to save money?

My thoughts are that the timken conversion is a time tested, reliable, safe and affordable means to get a more modern, off-the-shelf bearing and fix old hubs. But to be honest with you, to each his own and do whatever floats your boat by all means.


~shsj

Panacea
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.

#11

Post by Panacea » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:37 pm

And if everybody just cleaned and packed the bearings at each tire change......

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#12

Post by Cotten » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:46 am

SHSJ!

I only count one lathe set-up, press the race, and a few minutes hand-held on the Sunnen for a lick-and-spit fit to the rollers,... when necessary.

Too simple for the modern world?

If both bearing surfaces are gone (evil chroming no doubt), then http://flatlandmotorcyclecompany.com/intro/'s full update is in order.

...Cotten

shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#13

Post by shsj » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:15 am

Cotten!

With all due respect... I know you have been doing this for a very long time and you've seen it all and I respect what you are saying. But I don't think you read my post very carefully.

I was talking about fitting a Sportster rod race to the brake side, (what I should have said is Big Twin rod race... )which if it would work, would leave you with a 1.625 ID to be ground to fit the 1.750 ID needed for the Harley stock interchangeable bearing to be fitted. If you want to hone that baby then go right ahead! What I said was grinding it to size with the tool post grinder on the lathe. Truth is I don't think it would work anyway since the hardened surface would be gone by the time you took that much off so the point is moot. Also, you need to take a look inside a hub on the brake side and see that nice pressed in thrust spacer I was talking about...

As far as that needle bearing setup, it's just as much work as the timken conversion I'm talking about, only to install bearings that cost a hell of a lot more, are most likely not going to be available at your local Napa, and is a misuse of an application to begin with. They are rated for thousands of pounds, but I'm not sure about the RPM they are going to undertake in this application, not to mention the radial load. Those needles are SMALL and have very little surface area, probably won't dissapate heat very well, and it's not a full compliment bearing to begin with. And can't help but think that that interference fit is going to spin the race the first time that bearing gets a little dry and hot at high speed and by the way, your not going to get that bearing in your solvent tank to clean and repack every tire change cause it's pressed in the wheel! Should I go on?

Here's the bottom line... I'm not interested in an argument. All I know lots of guys used Star Hub Pros and apparently were very happy. Then Star Hub Pros stopped doing them, so I offered to do a few hubs for some guys on the web that I'm familiar with to HELP THEM OUT because they liked the proven timken setup and of course, to maybe make a dollar or two but I seriously doubt I will be buying the taj mahal on this one. If that doesn't appeal to you, then I guess I won't have any of your hubs in my lathe in January but that's okay with me if it's okay with you.

HOWEVER... you did give me a good idea, so I will be looking into putting the 45 rod race in the star side if anyone is interested! So, to other forum members, if your brake side race is still good then DROP ME A LINE!

AGAIN, all due respect to you Cotten and I know you been around and seen it all. I have read about your insurance company experiences as of late and I wish you all the best in getting your shop back in business.

~shsj

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#14

Post by Cotten » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:14 pm

SHSJ!

Yes, I have been doing this much too long, but I can still remember what a chore it is to keep fishing around for the fallen spacer between Timkens.

I am glad I never had to do it on the side of the road in the dark.

(Or go through the whole assembly twice to lathe-cut another spacer for proper endplay upon each re-packing.)

It's fun to re-invent the wheel, over and over and over..... Enjoy!

.....Cotten

shsj
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:29 pm

#15

Post by shsj » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:42 pm

Cotten,

Actually I believe I have it worked out so the spacer doesn't fall down when you pull the axle out, and will even support shims, and the shims won't fall out either.

~shsj

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