FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

Wheels, hubs and tires
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amiabledave
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FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#1

Post by amiabledave » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:39 pm

I could use help with the off set measurement of the hub to wheel measurement.....also, could you tell me the max run out of the wheel and hub if different.....

I have posted this on different forums, but nothing so far. Because of the knowledge base here, I'm hoping someone will know.

This has to do with a complete front end I'm running on the Pan. It's a 1990 FXST/C, single disk, 21" wheel.

On a pan, the manual says within a 1/32. That equates to (.031ths), but it's a smaller wheel.

I had a Harley Davidson dealer true up the wheel. They re-laced it because they wanted to remove the Anti-Seize I had on the Stainless spokes. When I went to pick it up, I asked them to put it back in the stand and give it a spin......It was horrible, and they told me the run out was in limits(.100ths) that's over 3x what the pan spec's are.

If possible, could you give the name of the manual and page of the spec's. Something I can have as ammunition when I go to pick it up.. They want to charge me 2.5 hrs for the job. $225.00...........

Thank you for your time.........Dave



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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#2

Post by RUBONE » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:55 pm

All spoke rims are basically the same and .030 is usually the high end of runout, barring the weld area of the rim. And if they wanted the anti-seize out you should have grabbed your wheel then and left. They obviously are clueless on proper application of stainless spokes.
JMHO
Robbie

amiabledave
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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#3

Post by amiabledave » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:13 pm

I made a post here at one time, and a member said in part,"If they knew there salt...". The only salt here is in the Gulf...My stomach is in knots. God I hate to have someone other than me to work on the bike........which is very, very rare.....

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#4

Post by Cotten » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:38 pm

Dave!

Sorry that I haven't such late model specs handy, but just a question or two...

What lube did they use?
How well did the wrench flats on the nipples survive?
Was there any radial "hop" run-out?
Were the protruding spoke ends properly dressed?
Do the spokes all strike a similar note when tapped with a wooden screwdriver handle?

Did they tell you that they were going to re-lace? Did you OK it, or otherwise imply consent?
If neither, then I would certainly protest.

In my state, recourse would be to contact the State's Attorney and then write a simple letter of complaint. That has worked well for me in the past.

Good Luck!

....Cotten

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#5

Post by amiabledave » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:04 pm

COTTEN............

I DIDN'T TAKE THE WHEEL, THEY STILL HAVE IT. NO LUBE TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAS BEEN USED. SPOKE ENDS ARE DRESSED , AND WITH LOCTITE. OUTSIDE OF THE VISUAL SPIN, I TOLD THEM THAT THE JOB WAS UNACCEPTABLE...THEY BLAME THE NEW RIM...THE RIM...THE RIM.. ALWAYS THE RIM. I TOLD THEM IF THE RIM WAS BAD, YOU SHOULD HAVE STOPPED WORK AND CALLED ME. BUT IT TOOK 2 MECHANICS, TWO DAYS TO PRODUCE JUNK.....

THEY HAVE ORDERED A STOCK 21" RIM THEY FOUND IN ALABAMA.....AND WILL HAVE A GO AGAIN.....I KNOW, WHY DON'T I TAKE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE?.......SO THE QUESTION THEN IS WHO??

THE MECHANIC TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD CLEAN THE Anti-Seize OF THE SPOKES...MY BAD.

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#6

Post by FlatHeadSix » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:15 pm

amiabledave wrote: AND WITH LOCTITE.
LOCTITE ???? Really ????? :?:

john HD
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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#7

Post by john HD » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:25 pm

yikes.

john

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#8

Post by Cotten » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:24 pm

Loctite seems in-excusable with stainless.

Do modern production machines have stainless spokes?
The 'Factory Schools' have tought other really really questionable practices, so I hope to ask an associate Tuesday.

Original spokes were cadmium plated not only for corrosion resistance, but for its lubricity upon the threads.

Were your spokes from Buchanan, Dave?
If so, I would imagine that they will provide a letter of warning.

On to the rim,
You must really carefully inspect the aspects I mentioned earlier.

As you spin it on the stand, take a large felt-tip marker and hold it to where it will mark the high spots, both left and right, laterally and radially. Try to ignore the very edge of the rim laterally, but focus upon the arc where the tire bead seats.
Then look the pattern of ink over and try to determine if it is a manufacturing problem or not.

A large bulge does not necessarily mean that it is the rim, as un-even over-tightening will produce the same effect upon a perfect rim.

....Cotten
PS: Your caps lock is on.

amiabledave
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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#9

Post by amiabledave » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:05 pm

COTTON...

THE ORIGINAL SPOKES AND RIM WHERE CADMIUM. I BOUGHT A CHROME RIM AND POLISHED STAINLESS TWIST SPOKES(TAIWAN STAMPED) AT A LOCAL CUSTOM DEALER THAT DOESN'T TRUE WHEELS..I DIDN'T USE A MARKER ON THE WHEELS, YOU COULD SEE THE RUN OUT..LOL..AND ANY OTHER CHECKS WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME..PLUS I WENT IMMEDIATELY TO THE SHOP FOREMAN AFTER SEEING THE ABOMINATION...IT REMINDED ME OF THE FLINTSTONES CAR. SO A CAD RIM IS ON ITS WAY..

AND OF COURSE, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY DID THE JOB RIGHT ANY WAY.....DOESN'T SOUND/LOOK LIKE THE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.....

THEN I HAVE TO TRY TO GET MY MONEY BACK FOR THE RIM...LOL........

I REBUILT MY STAR HUB AND HERITAGE CYCLES (HD DEALER) IN FT. WALTON FL., 3-4 HRS AWAY, HAD 4 SHIMS I NEEDED.....I'LL GIVE JIM IN PARTS A CALL. MAYBE HE COULD FAX OVER THE WHEEL SPEC'S......

SO FAR I HAVE DEALT WITH THE FOREMAN, AND WILL POSSIBLY MOVE TO THE GM

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#10

Post by Cotten » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Dave!

You bought parts elsewhere, and then expected folks who depend upon selling parts to respect that.

It seems your local independent dealer will be punished, too. No wonder they are an endangered species.

I do not wish to be discouraging, but the project is becoming a DIY moment. Get ready for a learning curve.

The original '90 rim was cadmium?
That's a shock.

...Cotten
PS: The caps-lock is the middle button at the far left of the keyboard. It makes a little light go off and on. Everybody else appreciates it when it is off, honest, thanks.

amiabledave
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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#11

Post by amiabledave » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:24 am

WELL AFTER THINKING THINGS OVER THE WEEK END, I CALLED THE GM AT THE DEALERSHIP...ABOUT 10 MIN. LATER, THE SERVICE FOREMAN CALLED ME. HE TOLD ME, "I THOUGHT WE WORKED IT OUT FRIDAY? THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE CHARGED FOR THE WORK DONE, AND WE WILL ONLY CHARGE YOU 2.5 HRS ON THE NEW WHEEL COMING IN.

I ALSO ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS 100THS RUN OUT....HE SAID THAT IT'S NOT .100 BUT .030THS...

IF IT WAS THAT CLEAR, I WOULD HAVE UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I'LL JUST SAY IT WAS A MISS UNDERSTANDING...........

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO TRUE UP A GOOD WHEEL ON A STAR HUB??

DAVE

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#12

Post by Hubbard » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:50 pm

Go get your wheel, you can buy the tools to do it yourself,[indicators and a wrench] for no more than fifty bux, use the front end it's goin on for the truin stand. Me or some body else will be GLAD to talk you thru it . theres NO reason a new rim can't run within .010 allover. Piss on the crooked dealer. If you need help finding indicators go online to use-enco.com and look up part no.605-4080 or 505-1848. You can get a nice wrench from most anybody that sells after market. Need any assistance?

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#13

Post by Cotten » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:26 am

Hubbard wrote:Go get your wheel, you can buy the tools to do it yourself,[indicators and a wrench] for no more than fifty bux, use the front end it's goin on for the truin stand. Me or some body else will be GLAD to talk you thru it . theres NO reason a new rim can't run within .010 allover. Piss on the crooked dealer. If you need help finding indicators go online to use-enco.com and look up part no.605-4080 or 505-1848. You can get a nice wrench from most anybody that sells after market. Need any assistance?
Hubbard!

Are modern rims really that good? Ten thou?

...Cotten

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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#14

Post by PanPal » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:05 pm

Are modern rims really that good? Ten thou?
I think it depends which rim you are lacing, The V twin rims have a buldge in them. The HD rims with DOT stamped on them are pretty good.

amiabledave
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Re: FRONT HUB OFF SET AND RUN OUT

#15

Post by amiabledave » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:50 am

Thanks for the replies. I received a call that the wheel was done. Went to the dealer and the wheel was still in the stand with an indicator on the side of the rim. Gave it a turn with a run out of .020....I put the indicator to the inside, again .020....The rim is a OEM that came from AL. $148.00+$10 shipping and instead of the 2.5 hr labor, they charged me the 2 hrs they originally told me.

I still have a Star hub w/ 16" rim to do..And yes, I would like to do it myself, but never done it.....I figure I could bolt it up to the rear Axle. Have book, but don't know how to get going...I have indicators out the ass..

Dave

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