Missing out, rough running new build

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txpan49
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Missing out, rough running new build

#1

Post by txpan49 » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:26 pm

Hey guys, I have a question in regards to missing and rough running engine. I have about 60 miles on my new re-build 49 engine and those trips were short 20 mile debugs. This morning I took it for a much longer ride. About 35 miles into it it was running pretty dang good then I notice it started bogging down a bit in 4th gear. It was losing power no matter how much throttle. I stopped and noticed smoke from both pipes. I figured the plugs had fouled but they looked good. I got it restarted and ran about 5 more miles and it started missing and would not idle so I shut it down and towed it home.

Here are some thoughts about the problem....
- the gas filter has a bubble, could it be a vapor lock or is that normal?
- could the timing be off? It is static timed on TDC. Maybe I should time off the advance mark.
- I do not have an oil pressure gage and it appears I have circulation. Could I have an oil pressure problem?

I want to think it is a fuel problem. Can that cause detonation and missing?
BTW, I am running a new CV carb jetting per Craig's notes.

Thanks,

TXPAN49



Panacea
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#2

Post by Panacea » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:20 am

Maybe the timing moved due to loose points, or the air filter element got sucked into the venturi, or there is a loose wire in the ignition circit, or the intake manifold has a leak, or a piece of crud got stuck in the carb,the possibilities are endless....LOL, let us know how you make out,...MW

Billy
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#3

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:08 am

txpan49-
"Maybe I should time off the advance mark".
Yes, (static) check your timing off the adv. tim. mark, w/timer fully advanced.
(PS) You're ONLY using (1) gas filter right ?

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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#4

Post by ozwick86 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:31 am

Check your battery. Could be your voltage regulator is not working properly by not charging the battery. Did you polarize your generator?

Billy
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#5

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:53 am

I'd be First concerned about:
"I stopped and noticed smoke from both pipes".
Smoke sounds like overheating to me !! (BAD)
retarded timing can do that. Or lack of oil recirculating.
Having a bubble in a gas filter is normal.
ONLY (1) gas filter though...........

Running a new motor richer during 'break-in' is a good thing.

fourthgear
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#6

Post by fourthgear » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:47 am

Like was said , smoke and losing power is a sign of over heating and or a lot of friction. I have a few questions , what color of smoke ? ,when you restarted was it easy to kick ? could you see oil return in the tank when idling ? what oil are you using (weight ) ?what type of ignition are you using ( auto adv. , manual adv. , electronic ) ?
As far as gas , I am also in the break in of a rebuilt motor and one of the things I had to over come was a fuel problem ( s ) , the first was too much rust in tanks and it was clogging the strainer in tank @ valve , I tried to tumble with bearings but it just come back and rather quickly , resorted to Kreem and it is like brand new in there, problem fixed. Other fuel related problem was when I installed a new auto adv. timer , I removed my bugle horn to get at timer and instead of reinstalling horn tube over fuel line I got under and it kinked fuel line enough to put a damper on any thing but slow and short ride. Timing is critical for kick starting ease. I also had a problem with my org. timer, it would come out of point dwell each time I moved it to retard to start, new adv. timer took care of it , starts first kick . This is just some of the problems I have encountered in break in. When rebuilding a motor with new components , the other old ones may no longer be in spec's to run reliably . Check it out and let us know.

txpan49
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#7

Post by txpan49 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:19 pm

Thanks guys. I am starting to think over heating due to lean conditions and timing. I was static timed at TDC and will go back and set it at advance. There is a mark for that on my flywheels. Also I will change the jet one up on the CV. When I noticed the loss of power and smoke (for only a brief time before I shut it down) I pulled the plugs. They were too clean and white for me. My friend with me said the smoke was black but I thought it was greyish. It cranked easily after a few minutes but was missing a bit. It sat for 1 hr while waiting for the trailer but cranked easily to drive up on the trailer so I am thinking no damage done.

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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#8

Post by Cotten » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:05 am

While yer at it, you might just suspect the manifold.

...Cotten

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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#9

Post by King » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:27 pm

Hi Forthgear

In your post you said:
"Timing is critical for kick starting ease. I also had a problem with my org. timer, it would come out of point dwell each time I moved it to retard to start, new adv. timer took care of it , starts first kick "
.
I assume you originally had a manual advance timer. How did it come out of dwell when you retarded it to start?

King

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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#10

Post by PanPal » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:35 pm

The manual advance timer can get loose where it swivels on the base. If there is slop in this, the points gap is not consistent each time you return to advance, or the retard position.

fourthgear
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#11

Post by fourthgear » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:36 pm

Just like panpal said, point gap would change every time I moved it to start. Yep an auto adv. timer did the trick.

txpan49
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#12

Post by txpan49 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:28 am

Wow, I am stumped. My 49, auto-advance, Pan running a new CV just won't kick. I have static timed 20 times. I just replaced my coil, new plug wires, new plugs. Getting good fire. I did the manifold intake leak test per Cotten with no leaks. Gap new points at .022. She tries to cough but backfires a mist of gas out of the carb. Today she spurted a mist of oil out of the chain oiler all over my Electraglide being pissed at me.

It was running fine but I must have done something weird. Since it last ran I;
- changed the jet one size up to a 48
- lifted the distributor and moved it one gear tooth so that I could get a good time with the mark just on the right of the window

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Russ

fourthgear
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#13

Post by fourthgear » Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:00 pm

First , are you sure it is timed correctly ( you have to adv. the point cam lob to full adv. to time an auto dist., some use the slotted holes on the auto dist. to do this , but I prefer to adv. it my self to make sure it goes in to full adv. )and setting points first then doing the static timing thing? Are you running solid or Hyd. lifters? Whats your compression readings , with in spec's?

haggis
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#14

Post by haggis » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:47 pm

txpan49,
Check your push rod adjustment , if your barfing gas out of the carb, sounds like the exhaust valves are not opening, gas has no where to go but back out the inlet valves under pressure.Haggis

txpan49
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Re: Missing out, rough running new build

#15

Post by txpan49 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:43 am

Thanks guys. Yes I have rechecked the pushrods and they roll with two fingers and appear fine. I think I must have done something to the timing but I have been over it several times and the points are opening on the small lobe with front cylinder compressed. But with the carb barfing out the gas I think it is coming from the unburned rear cylinder.

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