Could be the Clutch

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PanRider
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Could be the Clutch

#1

Post by PanRider » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:26 am

Had our first nice day here in MN on a weekend when I could get out in the garage and work on my bike. Had trouble starting it last fall and determined it was probably the clutch. As I watched the clutch housing as I kicked it over it didn't seem to be kicking thru. Took the clutch apart, cleaned the plates - which were really greasy and dirty, buffed them up a bit with some 80 grit sandpaper. So today I put it back together, adjusted it so the lever is 4.25" from the foot shifter housing to the slot in the clutch lever. Adjusted the rod from the mousetrap so it fit snug...not without discovering why it is called a mousetrap@%&*#! This past fall I put new points, plugs, wires and timed it, did the manifold leak test and rebuilt my bendix. I had it started in the fall with the greasy clutch but it just seemed to be the luck of the draw that it started. Lots of kicking. So today, with a cleaned up clutch, newly adjusted, I was hoping for a quick start. No such luck. Kicked for about 5 minutes and it started. Pulled it out of the garage and killed it. Tried to start it again and lots of kicking but no such luck. Again, when looking at the clutch, it doesn't seem to kick thru. I snugged up the clutch hub nuts to 31/32 as the book says. Then, I turned them in a half turn, tried to start bike, another half turn and repeated until I was at 7/8th and the book says it won't do much good to go beyond this. I do note that the clutch it a bit stiff pulling it in but when I had it started it shifted nicely into first without much of a clunk. I know the plates are all good. I feel like I've done everything by the book. But when I kick it pops before I get it kicked thru...when it fires. I tried starting it with the advance and without the advance. Started without the advance the once. Not sure what to do next. Frustrated at this point so took a ride on my 05 Road King to clear my head. But don't know what to do next. I've checked the plug gap, point gap, timing. Timing mark is at the back of the whole, I barely touch the circuit breaker and the light blinks on. I've had two panheads years ago and was always able to tune them up to be one kickers. Granted my leg isn't what it was twenty years ago but it shouldn't be giving me this much trouble.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.



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Re: Could be the Clutch

#2

Post by 1950Panhead » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:53 am

AN engine needs ful, compression, ignition to run.
I would check compression.
Spay come gas in each cylinder with spray oil can.
If compression ok try to start.
If is runs for a few seconds you have a fuel problem.
If still will not start probably ignition problem.
I have had new parts fail, try another condensor.
Jerry

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#3

Post by Huck » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:07 am

Just an opinion but gas any older than 2 months is questionable.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#4

Post by itsRICH » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:31 am

does it sound/feel like its getting a spark? I had an issue where I had to move the ignition switch barely to the right to get it make full contact, or maybe the carb was flooded? I doubt its your clutch if you got It to start eventually and then it died, not sure how the bedix works, but do you have it set properly? might be to lean to start with...

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#5

Post by PanRider » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:47 am

Gas is new. Regarding spark, it kicks back once in awhile a good kick so it's got spark. When I had it started it didn't die. I killed it. Bendix is pretty simple. It has a jet, not really any adjustment other than idle. It's squirting a healthy stream right in the center of the carb. Did the same thing with the old condenser I had in it. Would a condenser be a hit or miss kind of thing? Where it would start once in awhile? What are the chances of both condensers being bad? Could it be my timing? It seems like I can never kick it thru without it kicking back at me. All good suggestions. Thanks.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#6

Post by 1951 adam » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:00 am

If the clutch is slipping you would know when you kick it. I would start for point A , set points and timing, plugs. Fresh gas , if it was running , the condenser is good. Pull the plugs and check for spark, good spark.
I'm not super familiar with bendex carbs, had one on my 72. Make sure the pasages are clear, is there a slow jet? Can't remember .
Adam

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#7

Post by john HD » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:12 am

before you go much further try a brand new set of plugs. especially if you have flooded the motor in your attempts.

here is some light reading as to why: http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/fouling- ... on-vs-ngk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

john

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#8

Post by Huck » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:13 am

Too much advance will definitely make it kick back. Poor condenser will arch the points & burn them. If it was running you must be close.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#9

Post by PanRider » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:28 am

John, that's a rather depressing article on spark plugs. It sounds like anytime one floods or soak the plugs, you ruin the plugs! That could get expensive. But I'm going to buy some new plugs and give it another try tomorrow night. I'll go easy on the priming.

I'm also going to go thru everything again.... time it, set the points. Maybe retiming it will get it to where I can kick it over without it kicking back at me.Like Huck said it must be close. If it is firing before I get it kicked thru is the timing too advanced? It started when I had it fully advanced.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#10

Post by Mark44 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:52 am

PanRider wrote:John, that's a rather depressing article on spark plugs. It sounds like anytime one floods or soak the plugs, you ruin the plugs! That could get expensive. But I'm going to buy some new plugs and give it another try tomorrow night. I'll go easy on the priming.

I'm also going to go thru everything again.... time it, set the points. Maybe retiming it will get it to where I can kick it over without it kicking back at me.Like Huck said it must be close. If it is firing before I get it kicked thru is the timing too advanced? It started when I had it fully advanced.
By advancing and retarding the ignition timing, you're changing when the plugs fire relative to the position of the piston. If the timing is too advanced, the plugs fire while the piston is still on the way up, so the detonation causes the piston to change direction before it gets up to TDC. You're pressing down on the kicker, and the piston is changing direction, so you feel it in your leg/knee, as it kicks back.

If the ignition is just a little advanced, the piston is still able to get up to TDC and past before the full explosion, and the engine starts running.

If the ignition is way retarded, the fire can happen after the exhaust valve opens, and you get a pop in the header pipe when the unburned fuel/air mixture ignites.

That's how I understand things, at any rate.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#11

Post by 58flh » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:39 am

Sounds like you need to retard the grip,If you feel it pop as your bringing it up on comp.--Points at .022 & If you rub your finger on the bottom of the intake clamp & its wet!--BUBBLE-TEST AGAIN!--This might be your problem!---RICHIE

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#12

Post by bangkokbob » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:50 am

Maybe check wires where they run through the bottom of the ignition housing for a short by fraying.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#13

Post by PanRider » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:59 pm

I'll check the wiring. Was wondering about plug wires. I got some bulk wire from a NAPA store and made my own. Is there a specific plug wire I should be using?

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#14

Post by old.wrench » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:04 pm

PanRider wrote:I'll check the wiring. Was wondering about plug wires. I got some bulk wire from a NAPA store and made my own. Is there a specific plug wire I should be using?
I've used the bulk wire from NAPA before, it was 7 mm., had a blue jacket, and copper conductors. It worked all right. For points ignition, I use a plug wire with copper conductors except for one experience with stainless conductors which also seemed to work O.K.. As long as your using the copper wire and not the weird fiber stuff for electronic ignition you should be all right.

Geo.

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#15

Post by Cotten » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:26 pm

Panrider!

I know nothing about Bendixes (plural is Bendices?)
But you have a carb support, right?
(If not, follow Richie's note on another bubble-test, and make one too.)

...Cotten
PS: I wouldn't trust any plug wire that was a funny color, like yellow or blue.
Unless it was clear jelly like this red:
DEKAWIRE.jpg
And yes, I run it.
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