Could be the Clutch

PanRider
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#16

Post by PanRider » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:11 am

Bought some new NGK B-6L plugs, bought some new plug wires from Fleet Farm, copper wires for an old tractor. Got home and the wife smelled gas. Checked the bike and it was leaking gas. Too dark to see from where but looked like from the carb somewhere. Seemed like it may have been where the manifold meets the carb. Maybe that's my problem. Could be leaking from the tank somewhere. Could be a manifold leak. Will check in the morning light. Did the test last fall and it tested good. I maybe screwing up somewhere, obviously. 1 step forward and two steps back. My plan has been to get it mechanically sound before tearing it down to paint and rebuild. Rebuilt the front and rear breaks. Rebuilt the carb last fall. Ran it and never had any leaks then. Will just have to check it out next weekend. Need a vacation to spend some quality time with her.



Mark44
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#17

Post by Mark44 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:09 am

PanRider wrote:Bought some new NGK B-6L plugs, bought some new plug wires from Fleet Farm, copper wires for an old tractor. Got home and the wife smelled gas. Checked the bike and it was leaking gas. Too dark to see from where but looked like from the carb somewhere. Seemed like it may have been where the manifold meets the carb. Maybe that's my problem. Could be leaking from the tank somewhere. Could be a manifold leak. Will check in the morning light. Did the test last fall and it tested good.
Can you elaborate on how you're doing the manifold test? A test where you squirt starting fluid or WD-40 on the manifold while the engine is running isn't as good as supplying air under pressure (10 to 12 psi is enough) and spraying a soap/water mixture or Windex on the joints. If you have a leak, you'll get bubbles, typically lots of them.
PanRider wrote: I maybe screwing up somewhere, obviously. 1 step forward and two steps back. My plan has been to get it mechanically sound before tearing it down to paint and rebuild. Rebuilt the front and rear breaks. Rebuilt the carb last fall. Ran it and never had any leaks then. Will just have to check it out next weekend. Need a vacation to spend some quality time with her.

Cotten
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#18

Post by Cotten » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:47 pm

Panrider!

A bubble-test is necessary to be thorough, but it cannot address the manifold and carburetor flanges, as the carb must be removed for the test.

Both flanges should be arbitrarily ground flat, as nearly all are distorted from fastener stress.
FLNGPLUM.jpg
Reassembly should be 10 ft-lbs, 13 ft-lbs maximum, as anything over that will bend them both.
Often, the phenolic spacer could use grinding as well.

Beware that leaking fuel will eventually make into the motor, washing off critical start-up lube, and polluting the oil. A sound petcock is critical.

....Cotten
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PanRider
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2005 Road King Classic
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#19

Post by PanRider » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:56 pm

Last fall when I did the test I made a piece of wood the shape of the manifold, drilled a hole the size of my air compressor nozzle, bolted it on, soaked the joints with soapy water and blew into the manifold. Nothing bubbled. Taking the carb off is a b$%&^h but I realize it has to come off to do the test. Socket is too large and I have to put the wrench in at an angle and only turn it a bit at a time. Yes, the carb is braced up from the engine. Plan on draining the gas from the tank tonight to see if it is my petcock leaking out gas. Hopefully will have more time this weekend to look into all the problems. Everyone's questions and ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Kim

socalrider
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#20

Post by socalrider » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:55 am

panrider,
i was having a similar problem with my 65 flh a couple of months ago. i did everything you mentioned , new plugs ,wires, points, condenser and made sure i had no manifold leaks.my bike would start but it took alot of effort on the electric start with a fully charged new battery. i was going nuts trying to figure it out. so i check the spark again and noticed it would seem to get weak after a few revolutions with the electric start. i pulled the coil off my shovel, put it on the pan, and she fired right up. i always thought that coils either worked or they didnt no in between. if you have access to a known good coil you should try it out.also, if your wiring is not up to par ,you will have starting issues. an easy way to determine that is to connect a jumper directly off the positive of the battery to the ignition switch side of your coil. that bypasses all your wiring including switch. hope you get it figured out,i know how frustrating these things can be.
suerte
arnulfo

Cotten
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#21

Post by Cotten » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:22 am

Kim!

You can't just "blow into the manifold".
It takes a constant, regulated supply of airpressure, of 12-15psi max.

And then you have to jump around and look all over for any possible leaks in unsuspected places, such as even the pan cover screws over each intake port.

Please review http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html
It may save you some tail chasing, but the petcock is a separate concern.

...Cotten

hplhd
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#22

Post by hplhd » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:09 am

i know this is a no brainer but the valves just can't be in any orientation to test for leaks. (i don't know were i got orientation at but i hope you know what i mene :) )

Mark44
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#23

Post by Mark44 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:22 am

hplhd wrote:i know this is a no brainer but the valves just can't be in any orientation to test for leaks. (i don't know were i got orientation at but i hope you know what i mene :) )
What you said is perfectly clear to me...

A different way to say it is that it's best if the valves are seated.

Cotten
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#24

Post by Cotten » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:08 pm

Folks,

The airpressure regulator lets you know if the intakes are not shut.
(And even I can hear it.)

...Cotten

Huck
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#25

Post by Huck » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:41 pm

As an added bonus for playing around with solid lifter adjustment, this simple little rig will let you know when you're too tight.

PanRider
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#26

Post by PanRider » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Well the gas leak was pilot error. Had it on reserve instead of off.... It's been a long winter. arnulfo, thanks for that note. I was wondering about that myself. I see in the manual it tells one how to test for a good spark. I'll be testing that out this weekend. I don't have another coil available to me at this time. Cotten, thanks for the link regarding the manifold leak test. Is it important not to go over 10-15lbs of pressure? Will more blow out the seals?

itsRICH
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#27

Post by itsRICH » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:31 am

i had mine up to about 20 in order to see the bubbles, at 10-15 it wasn't very apearant (think I spelled that right), had no issues with it, tighted the clamps and bubbles went away

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Re: Could be the Clutch

#28

Post by Scrap » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:58 am

itsRICH wrote:i had mine up to about 20 in order to see the bubbles, at 10-15 it wasn't very apearant (think I spelled that right), had no issues with it, tighted the clamps and bubbles went away
Think again, it's apparent :) and I'm not insulting anyone, I really don't give a s***t about spelling it was all in good fun.

Cotten
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#29

Post by Cotten » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:57 am

The way it was explained to me, Folks,..

We are looking for what would be vacuum leaks while the motor is running, and absolute vacuum is "equal" to 14.7 psi (1 atmosphere) at sea level.

So 15 psi is overkill, but if more pressure shows leaks, it is good to find them.

What is more important is where you look. Casting porosities can occur in strange places, so "snoop" over the entire manifold, between the fins around the intake ports, and the pan cover screws over each port. I have found leaks in all of these places.

The sparkplugs can be tested by merely kicking the motor over.

Soaps and detergents must be thoroughly rinsed, but non-corrosive bubble solutions are available at many hardware stores.

The carb to manifold seam cannot be bubble-tested, but with the motor running, an un-lit propane torch may display a large leak, or sloppy throttle bushings.

....Cotten

58flh
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Re: Could be the Clutch

#30

Post by 58flh » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:52 am

Panrider---You said 1-Adj. screw for IDLE-SPEED!--That's a fixed-jet bendix!--The Float & needle & seat should not of let any gas thru if left on or in reserve position!--Drop the bowl 9/16-nut & clean the carb.-(REAL-GOOD!).--Make-sure when the float goes-up NOTHING gets past the inlet!--(just blow on the inlet while holding the float-up!--If no air goes by its HOLDING!--When the float drops -AIR should flow freely!.--On a NON-ADJ> mainjet Bendix--Which are good carbs,--BUT all must work flawless!--USE a fuel filter!.If it started & stopped when the fuel-supply stopped, Then you have a dirty carb. & perhaps Blockage from debris if not using filter!---It just sounds to me when you prime it she fires & burns-up what you put in!--You have spark!-& a screwed-up carb. will FUEL-FOUL your plugs!--Just 1-mans opinion!---RESPECTFULY---RICHIE

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