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1959 Duo kickstarting

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giorgio
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:15 pm

1959 Duo kickstarting

#1

Post by giorgio » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:54 am

need help.
i have problems on starting my bike with kickstart.
please let me have detailed instructions on method.
ps i have a s&s super e carb mounted.
thanks to all reply
giorgio/italy



kell
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:58 am

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#2

Post by kell » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:02 pm

Welcome to the board Giorgio.
I can think of a couple of things off the top of my head. I sometimes had a lot of headaches trying to kick start my '52, before I got used to it and learned about the various things I have to look for. You might have crud in the gas tank clogging the screen where the gas goes out to the petcock. It's good to have a clear gas filter so you can see whether the gas is flowing through the line to the carb. Even with everything properly maintained and clean you could get an air bubble in the line maybe or your gas caps not letting in air, which will lock up the fuel flow. When that happened to me on the road a couple times I would pull off one end of the top crossover tube and force air into the tanks from my lungs (yecch).
I'll assume you have a points ignition. At the risk of belaboring the obvious: Gotta keep those points clean of course -- any pitting will make starting very difficult. Check gap and timing, obviously. Fouled plugs will give you a headache too -- that's one of the first things to check. And because the plugs probably have too big of a gap when you buy them, make sure you squeeze them down to less than 30 thousandths of an inch, or whatever is correct if you're using metric?
I use the super E. My starting procedure:
First just leave the ignition off. Open the richener on the carb and give the bike at least two kicks while twisting the throttle. This will wet your bike's whistle, to use an old American expression. Then turn on the ignition and kick the engine over, but don't touch the throttle while doing this. After it fires up you can tickle the throttle a little.
Others on this board will chime in.

I guess I should mention battery voltage. I say this because I just went out and tried to start my bike after letting it sit, with the battery in it, for about a month. When I go out to start the bike I often turn on the headlight for a moment just to check the battery. I did that today and it looked okay. I got the bike started and it died. Couldn't get it started again. I checked the headlight again and it was dim. Weak battery. I decided to start my car and connect the jumper cables. With the car revving a little just to make sure it made full voltage (I have a very old car), the bike started on the first kick. I confess my bike has an electronic ignition, which makes starting easier and more consistent overall.
Weather here in New York below freezing today, but it's supposed to get warmer in the next few days. What part of Italy do you live in?

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#3

Post by Cotten » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:51 am

Running a bike with a dead battery is a good way to burn the generator armature.

Jonderson
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:36 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#4

Post by Jonderson » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:01 pm

Have to mention the intake manifold leak possibility before Cotten does... ;D

VintageTwin
Panhead Register Member
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#5

Post by VintageTwin » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:24 am

Knuckles and Pans. The only Harley-Davidsons that have a short stroke and heavy flywheels, which allow you to put the motor on compression stroke and the kicker-crank way-y-y-y down there at 7 o'clock. You don't need to hop or jump on the kickarm. Prime the motor with a couple of snap throttles and the key off. Put the arm down at 7 o'clock (don't move your foot), turn the key on and bump the crank once. You'll will be starting the motor with very little effort and it just rips onlookers all to pieces. To an observer, it seems impossible that you can start that huge motor with a bump of the kickarm. Drive off slowly, both feet on the footboards, and leave them with their mouth's open...muting the word.."easyrider".

panomania
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:04 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#6

Post by panomania » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:05 am

2 squirts,2 primer kicks (ign.off) turn on ign, and kick somewhere between 50 and 75 kicks. thats how i do it. good luck.

kevin
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#7

Post by kevin » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:05 pm

My 64 stock linkert panhead starts as follows:
2 primer kicks........turn on switch...........close choke........retard spark............3 or 4 kicks...........if it doesn't start I open the choke..............open the throttle all the way..........kick one last time and we're off!
If this doesn't work then it's back to 75 kicks (or more), because I tend to be way to stubborn when my mind gets set on starting the old beast.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#8

Post by Cotten » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:54 pm

How about:

Check lights (Fuel, oil, tires, chains, brakes,.... etc.); Open petcock.

Spark retarded over half-way; Key off: three kicks at full choke, full throttle.
Open choke, throttle down to cracked; find compression stroke.
Key on: first kick ignition if no one is watching.
Advance spark. Warm motor feathering the RPM.

Ride safe.

Jonderson
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:36 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#9

Post by Jonderson » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:05 am

Petcock! (Slaps forehead)
Of all the things that prevent a bike from starting this is the one that gets me most often. Makes me feel like an idiot too, especialy because it happens so often. And here it didn't even cross my mind to suggest it as a possible cause. Great, just great. :
My start routine for the 63 (cold) is one compression kick, 4 squirts, full retard, key on, one (or two) kicks and I am running. And it is like VT says, for me kicks are really closer to nudges.

Guest

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#10

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:09 pm

Hi man, welcome aboard
Unfortunately mate, all the advice in the world won't help.
You have to get to know your bike, it's personal.
If all your plumbing and wiring is up to speed, practice!
Others on this board have given you good starting points ('scuse the pun) .
If it's any consolation, I have an Evo also with kicker which is also a b***ard sometimes. I always work on the principle that either bike, Pan or Evo, they always play to the audience. The more observers, the more kicks.

Later

Topsy.

I say again get to know your bike.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#11

Post by Cotten » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:24 am

I agree with Topsy that everyone must get familiar with their machine.....

BUT

If your machine does not start with the drill that I described, then you have gremlins to deal with.
Gremlin numero uno is the Evil Manifold Leak. Pressure test with soapsuds to find it.
Numero duo are the e-leck-trickle variables. Replace condensor(s), clean and adjust points, and re-time ignition. Often the gremlin goes out in the wash.
(The battery is fresh, right?)
If your machine is still hard to start with the drill I described, then check valve adjustment, and if worst case, do a leak-down compression inspection.
If everything is close to spec, starting should never be a problem. They never could have sold the contraptions in the first place if starting was that much of an ordeal.

dirtpandan58
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#12

Post by dirtpandan58 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:02 pm

So we came outa the bar at closin' time and the ol' boy couldn't get his '48 pan started. Been kickin' for awhile and no one could figure out what was wrong.
He had just bought the bike about a week earlier so he didn't know much about it.
I had just had this problem with mine so I asked him , how's your clutch been actin'? He said it seems to be slippin' a little bit but what's that got to do with it. I said plenty, why don't you adjust it. He said I don't know how with the mouse trap and all.
So I said lets do it now, it'll only take a few minutes. He said no it aint got nothin' to do with it and everyone else agreed. So they decided to push it... Fired right up. They came back to where I was standin' and said I wasn't much of a brother 'cause I woudn't help push.
I told them I offered to fix the damn thing and I'm not pushin' a bike that can be fixed so easy.
I saw him the next night. He apologized and said he adjusted his clutch and it starts right up every time.
Sorry for the long winded story, but I wanted to suggest checking your clutch adjustment and didn't want you to think I was soundin' stupid.
Good luck,
Dirt

panomania
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:04 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#13

Post by panomania » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:45 pm

hey cotton, i was under the impression that the choke circuit only worked if the throttle was closed on a super-e. learn something new everyday.

ok,since reading the cranking methods you guys have started listing, ive tried paying more attention and really looking for the best method on mine. when hot, 1st kick always. when cold, twisting the throttle open, 2 kicks with ign off, release throttle, 1/2 retard advance, turn on switch and kick. if it doesnt bust off in 4 kicks, i repeat the proceedure. on mine any choke will gas foul the plugs.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#14

Post by Cotten » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:21 am

Panomania!

The drill I cited was for vintage V twins in general, and non-specific to the various original or replacement carbs.
I don't even know if an E has a choke. I would imagine it has an 'enrichener'?
I do know that when relying upon an accelerator pump there is a fine line between 'primed' and 'flooded'.

giorgio
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:15 pm

Re: 1959 Duo kickstarting

#15

Post by giorgio » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:41 am

Many thanks to all of you.It feels like i'm in a family.
Anyway it starsts being a little better now tha i srtart knowing my bike.
best to all
giorgio/italy

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