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Can't start it hot

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Howard

Can't start it hot

#1

Post by Howard » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:45 pm

Hi, I'm new to this hobby and recently bought a 46 WL 45. I can kick start it just fine when it's cold--but after it's ran and warmed up-- > I can't. I don't feel any compression to kick against after it's warmed up and off. It just easily kicks or rolls over (but doesn't start). Is this just the nature of the beast or is something wrong? Thanks, Howard



oldironman
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:04 am
Bikes: 58 Pan, 66 FLH
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Can't start it hot

#2

Post by oldironman » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:52 am

Hi Howad,
when you kick it is the motor turning over? It may be the clutch is slipping when hot..

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Can't start it hot

#3

Post by Cotten » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:07 pm

When things get hot, they get bigger. Even holes get bigger.
Those of you who aren't thinking dirty know I am talking about vacuum leaks, but this also applies to your bore and ring gaps, and valve lash. They control your compression.
If your valve adjustment is too tight, then expansion can take up all clearance and keep valves open until it cools again.
First, you must certain that your manifold is sealed, try this simple test: http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No other test tells you where or how much of a problem there might be. If it is truly sealed, then just a few clicks of the lowspeed needle should make starting consistant.
Eliminateing the heat of a vacuum leak may well eliminate a valve lash interference as well.
Once that variable is crossed-off, you should re-check your valve clearances as well. of course.

HOWARD

Re: Can't start it hot

#4

Post by HOWARD » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:53 pm

Oldironman--Yes, i do think the clutch is working fine (not positive) as it allows the bike to start normally when it's cool. But, after the engine has warmed up and stopped I don't feel any resistance of compression to kick against (and can move the pedal by hand) untill it cools off again.

Cotton--I guess I better check for vacume leaks--then valve adjustment. (Actually, I might have a shop do the valve adjustment to insure it's done right). Is the bike ok for practicing to ride on? Or should I wait till it's repaired correctly first? (assuming it's a valve lash problem). Could I damage it if I let it run too long as is? Should I just leave it off till repaired? I guess stalling out the engine while I'm practicing to ride would be no fun -while waiting for everything to cool down would suck too. And what if it happened in traffic-yikes! No quick restarts! If I have to have it taken to a shop--have it trailered (and not ride it) right? Thanks, Howard

Howard

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Can't start it hot

#5

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:38 am

Uh,.. Howard,...If you want something done, right,.. you had better do it yourself.
These implements require attention and care. You cannot be running off to a shop for every little grimace. Particularly if the shop does not specialize in vintage machines. Valve adjustments were expected to be performed by the owner, even by the Factory.
If you expect to enjoy the total experience of a vintage machine, then you have no choice but to get your hands dirty. Very dirty. You will find it rewarding.

HOWARD

Re: Can't start it hot

#6

Post by HOWARD » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:32 pm

Cotton- and everyone ;D I uhh... found my mistake. I must have been coincidentally starting the bike with the clutch pedal rocked forward (while in neutral on the tank) then not thinking that it mattered--while I was warming up the bike, I then rocked the pedal backwards (thinking that neutral was neutral and what should it matter?). Then confusingly I couldn't get compression to kick against later. Geez! What a rookie mistake huh? Even thugh everything is in neutral the clutch pedal still has to be rocked forward to start. I learned though and won't forget. Murphy's Law huh? I did read up on valve adjustment and it looks like it's no problem. But, I'll wait till later for that-- now that I can start it. All neutrals are not the same! Ha,ha! Thanks, Howard

warhog
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:32 pm

Re: Can't start it hot

#7

Post by warhog » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:02 pm

Hey Howard,
Glad to hear you found your ummm... problem! lol!
Just curious tho... doesn't your rocker clutch have any spring resistance to it? I couldn't leave mine clutch disengaged if I wanted to as it automatically returns to a clutch engaged position... just wondering...

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Can't start it hot

#8

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:56 pm

The dampener spring upon the footclutch is a leftover from times when roads were cowpaths, and fording a stream or traversing frozen gulleys were normal road riding.
In modern times on hard pavement, the star spring is best released to where it ALWAYS self-engages the clutch. You should NEVER get into the habit of relying upon it to keep the motor out of gear, as vibrations could easily engage it and propell you into a busy intersection, or worse.
Not only will you have better feel for the clutch with the dampener loose, but your clutch springs will then last indefinitely. (The springs should never be left compressed.)
It is a sign of a novice to have his pedal stuck upward when he is away from the machine. It gagged me to see machines displayed that way in the Factory's traveling semi museum.

Billy
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

Re: Can't start it hot

#9

Post by Billy » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:06 am

You would think the factory workers would know better.
But good help is hard to find.

Jack_Hester
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Re: Can't start it hot

#10

Post by Jack_Hester » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:34 pm

I was reading this post, and it struck me. Either the world (as we know it) is flooding with trailered machines. Or, we are a dying breed.
I don't know your age, Howard, and it doesn't matter. What matters is that you joined. And, it's more than a hobby. It's preservation of a way of life. Don't let this one be your last. As Cotton put it, get a little grime under your fingernails on this one. Know it to the point that you can tell everything about it. Also, to quote Cotton, "If you want something done, right,.. you had better do it yourself". This board and a few others will be more than willing to help with any problem.
Sorrry for getting off the topic. Nostalgia hits, when I find someone taking on an old machine for the first time. I don't live close to anyone that shares the interests of a board like this. I know quite a few builders (restorers) of old machines. Just don't see any newcomers to the old ways.

Billy -

The 'factory workers' may be just that, nowadays. In it for the paycheck.

Jack

Guest

Re: Can't start it hot

#11

Post by Guest » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:08 pm

Hey guys,
just to tell that you don't need to despeir, we're not a disappearing breed!
I'm riding a 1950 WL since 1981 and still happy with it, riding about 5000km a year
and guess what: my son became 18 years old and he rides his own 1943 customised WLC and he loves it.
so the world is beautiful and riding becomes great fun.
See you on the road somewhere.
Ride them, don't hide them!
JP

Billy
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

Re: Can't start it hot

#12

Post by Billy » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:01 pm

I AGREE 100% keep them rolling!! :)

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