Hard starts

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55suicidepan
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:04 am

Hard starts

#1

Post by 55suicidepan » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:16 am

Hi everybody, I am new to the site and already need some help.

First problem is my 55 pan has a Super E carb, and sometimes i can start it on 2 kicks, but most of the time it takes at least 10 kicks. I need some pointers on how to start it, maybe less gas, maybe more choke , i can't figure out what it takes every time i need to start it.
Second problem, when I finally get the bike started and cruise down the road, it will run great, and then whether it is hot or cold the engine will spit and sputter for a second and then smooth out for a while and then it will do it all over again. any help is appreciated . thanks



Cotten
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Re: Hard starts

#2

Post by Cotten » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:35 am

Evil Manifold Leak strikes again.

55suicidepan
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Re: Hard starts

#3

Post by 55suicidepan » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:42 am

Ok so how do i check for the leak ? And how do i fix it?

will it cause any damage to the motor if it is driven ?

thanks

Cotten
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Re: Hard starts

#4

Post by Cotten » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:56 am

Second question first: Yes, extra air makes heat. Heat eats motors.

First question: http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You need a big cork with a hole in it to put a constant 15psi on the assembled manifold. Then dilute dishsoap on the outside will show you exactly where and how much of a problem you might have.

I pressuretest while assembling, so that I can find the sweet spot where everything seals best.






And before I forget, it's my turn to ask,... you do have a support to the carb, right?

Rainjester
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Re: Hard starts

#5

Post by Rainjester » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:16 pm

When it's cold, key off, choke prime it with one or two kicks, no choke, key on, then kick it over.

When it's warm and you just ran it a little while ago, you shouldn't have to prime it, just turn the key on and kick it over. If you prime it after you just rode it, you flood it and it'd take a while to start.

If these don't work, you've got something else going on.

Pull out your spark plugs to see if they have black soot on them. If so, you either have a manifold leak or you're running the carb too rich. (or both) If you get into a hard starting situation again, swap out your plugs and see if it starts right up.

I had the same hard starting symptoms until I fixed the manifold leak and the fact that I was running it too rich. Putting new harley 3-4 plugs in, it'd start right up until the plugs got fouled from the leak and the richness.

jester-

55suicidepan
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Re: Hard starts

#6

Post by 55suicidepan » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:32 pm

cotten: I do have a support bracket going to the carb, if that is what you were asking. thanks

57pan
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Re: Hard starts

#7

Post by 57pan » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:00 pm

55,

You should really do a search on this topic - there have been many discussions on starting techniques for these old bikes.

One thing about these old bikes: every one has its own personality. You just have to spend enough time with it to get to know its moods and how it's feeling on any particular day. That's what makes them so endearing.

Seems like everyone has their own "bag of tricks" that they use with varying degrees of success. There are just so many variables that it is hard to predict what will/won't work and something that works one time may not work the next. That's what makes them so exasperating.

madcatter
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Re: Hard starts

#8

Post by madcatter » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:45 am

manifold leak test
start bike anyway ya can get a can of wd40 and spay lightly around the manifold.motor will do goofy things if there is a leak.

Billy
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Re: Hard starts

#9

Post by Billy » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:53 am

WD-40 is NO longer flamable, besides that test is like 'pissing in the wind'....... Not the best idea...

Read Cotten's post & link to Real accurate testing.

Rainjester
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Re: Hard starts

#10

Post by Rainjester » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:49 am

I'll have to agree with the WD-40 test before pulling the carb off to do the manifold leak test.

I figure, why go through all the work pulling it off just to find out that it may not be leaking?

I actually fabricated my own manifold tester based off of Cotten's leak test site for this but I still spray it first to see if it stumbles. If it does, then I'll pull things apart to further test the manifold with the leak tester and fix it.

jester-

Cotten
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Re: Hard starts

#11

Post by Cotten » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:08 am

Spraying a flammable around a large leak will affect the motor,... if the motor will even start! But how does it pinpoint the exact spot, or tell you anything about how big it is. While you are burning up the top end.

And the vacuum within the manifold changes with RPM and temperature. Are you standing there whipping and punishing the motor to test it WFO as well as at idle?

Bubbletesting allows you time to observe and inspect.
Not only does it display the tiniest of leaks, it often points out problems unsuspected, like casting porosities, or even leaks through the pancover screw over the port.

Doing it while installing saves a lot of grief and tail-chasing.
And consider the benefit when firing up a fragile fresh motor! Think of all the damage done while trying to diagnose something that should have been gnat's ass in the first place.

It's time vintage Harleydom got out of the barnyard.
It is too expensive not to.

Rainjester
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Re: Hard starts

#12

Post by Rainjester » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:17 pm

WD-40 is NOT flammable. Get yourself a lighter and spray to find out for yourself. It is simply a lubricant and will not hurt the motor any more than motor oil will.

There are quite a few causes that will lead to symptoms of hard starts (bad plugs, timing, fuel/air mixture, carb float; just to name a few) and it'd have to be a good sized leak for it to be a main cause.

Definitely if you're putting it together once it's been disassembled use the leak test kit, but once it's together, I'm not going to take it all apart to do a leak test just because it's running funny, I'll use the spray method which does not hurt it in any way.

Agreed, it's not the best method, but it IS a method that can be quickly used short of having to take it apart. If you do find it reacting negatively to the spray method, THEN take it apart but don't take it apart until you've gone over other potential causes if it's not reacting to it.

jester-

thsmith
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Re: Hard starts

#13

Post by thsmith » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:19 pm

As several said, do a search on Linkert, hard starting and carb. You will find a wealth of information.

The pressure test is gospil, do it.

One thing I found on my 49 was it had been converted to o ring intake. When you do this the space between the heads are now to narrow to fit the o ring intake. Normally people just have the outer intake flange turned down say 50 thousants but they forget to turn the innier flange the same amount making the oring not able to fit securely where it should resulting in a major leak and if you turn the idle screw out enough you will get it to start and WD40 will not affect the idle.

Pressure test it.

Good luck

Tracy

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Re: Hard starts

#14

Post by hplhd » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:35 pm

hello, just signed in at roll call and ride. i took off my linkert and have a s&s e like you do. i don't use my enricher, a few ssquirts and a prime kick but i know besides the other things mentioned a good charged bat , points and plugs gapped right and in good shape makes a big diff to. like mentioned they all have dif quirks my 64 is nothing like my 59. you'll get to know yours and i'm sure everyone has mentioned to you, get a manual if you don't aldeady have one. nothing like a kick start bike most everyone i know can't figure out why i love them so much or would even want one. thank god for sites like this one and others. soooo just wanted to put my 2cnts in and say hello to everyone

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Re: Hard starts

#15

Post by panfreak » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:54 pm

I built/used a pressure tester as described, and believe it is the most telling method. But I built it for my manifold as described, so I am going to ask the question I'm sure others are thinking too; why can't I build a new adaptor to fit my carb flange, then I only have to drop the filter to test? seems to make sense, after all, this way you could test carb to manifold seal as well as o-rings etc. This has never been mentioned, but I have wondered why no one does it?
Better than WD40, easier than pulling the carb......

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