now for the problems

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LittleAl
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now for the problems

#1

Post by LittleAl » Tue May 26, 2009 1:58 am

I have a few minor problems and only a few solutions:

1) Something is shorting out in the dash. Everything is fine until I put the dash cover on. Frustrating, but I'll figure that one out.

2) the float/needle/seat in the S&S "E" must be sticking or in bad shape, or mis-adjusted because gas drips out of the vent at the top of the bowl. Serves me right for not doing a complete rebuild on it before I put it on. This should be an easy fix even though I'm pissed at myself for letting it happen.

3) The through the tank style petcock is leaking. When I snug it up by turn in the thumb "cap" gas doesn't flow out of the hose at the carb, but it does drip. I need a bit of help on this one, it seems like a simple enough arrangement but I played around with it a little with no improvement.

4) this is the most serious problem and what's preventing her from starting. First off it seems to kick through too easy, like no compression or like the kicker is not actually turning the motor. I adjusted valves as suggested, I have solids with aluminum pushrods so cold I adjusted them on the tight side. Got them to zero lash then like another 1/2 turn or so to where I could just barely turn them with 3 fingers. I can't seem to find my compression tester but pulling both plugs and having someone else kick I can feel suction and good compression, good as determined by feel, I'm pretty secure in this assessment. My first thought was a tight valve adjustment but it seems not based on the suction & compression I feel with my finger at the plug hole. I pulled the timing plug again had someone else kick and the crank is certainly turning. I mention this only because my sense is that it's something in the primary or kicker gears my impression is it's just WAY too easy to kick. I'm leaving it alone for tonight. I wanna hear from you guys and my frustration level is way too high to make rational decisions, lol



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Re: now for the problems

#2

Post by lockdoc » Tue May 26, 2009 2:10 am

My E would stick occasionally when I first installed. Nothing a few smacks on the bottom of the bowl didn't take care of. Thouigh it did happen for a few days. Even after I took it off and checked the float level plus cleaned. After a couple days it started to seat properly. Whatever works. Your kick start sounds more like a clutch issue. Check your adjustment. It only needs to be a little tight to cause slipping that would make the kicker fly too easy. I also had a short when I put my panel cover on. One of the wires on a switch terminal would hit the cover. Had to reroute it once I figured it out. Can't help with the gas thing. Good luck! Your almost there!

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Re: now for the problems

#3

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue May 26, 2009 2:54 am

Al
I agree with lockdoc, you may have a slipping clutch. A real quick check for this is to pull the dust cover off the timer and watch the shaft in the circuit breaker as you kick it. (assuming, of course, that you still have the OEM breaker and points). If everything is as it should be you should see the timer shaft make almost a complete revolution with each kick. If the clutch is slipping the shaft will only make about a half revolution and sort of bounce back when a cylinder hits the top of a compression stroke. The timer shaft should keep going all the way around in a clockwise direction with successive kicks.

An additional benefit to this quick check is that you should also see a little spark at the points when the timer shaft goes around, where there's spark, there's fire, or something like that.

keep kicking, you'll get it sorted out.

mike

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Re: now for the problems

#4

Post by mbskeam » Tue May 26, 2009 3:56 am

for a leaky petCock you may need to do this...
DSC_0107.jpg
DSC_0106.jpg
and a shot my help also....LOL
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Re: now for the problems

#5

Post by john HD » Tue May 26, 2009 6:21 am

al,

on points 3 and 4,

the petcock may need to be lapped to make a good seal. take the seat and rod out of the tank, then apply a dab of fine valve lapping compound to the tip of the rod and work it open and shut a kazillion times. watching tv with a couple of beers aid in passing the time. don't bother with the new repop ones they leak when new. (unless that is what you have now) clean and reassemble and test... repeat...

a quick way to test your clutch is to open the cover and place a chalk mark on the inner and outer. kick it through a couple of times, the marks should be still lined up.

john

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Re: now for the problems

#6

Post by VintageTwin » Tue May 26, 2009 2:15 pm

I adjusted valves as suggested, I have solids with aluminum pushrods so cold I adjusted them on the TIGHT SIDE :cry: . Got them to zero lash then like another 1/2 turn or so to where I could just barely turn them with 3 fingers.
THAT'S NUTZ. :shock: You're going to ruin your motor. Adjust them like Vol. 1 or else ...."You'll be sorrrryyyyyyy :!:
as suggested
Like WHO suggested? A whacko that doesn't even own a running Pan, but is long on theory?
then like another 1/2 turn or so
:lol: Another 1/2 turn or so.............OR SO :!: God....frickin'.... damn :!:
Let me put it another way. Do you believe that the Hells Angels® are murdering, baby eating, gangsters (with little babies legs sticking out of their mouths and blood running down their chin), or do you think that they actually include a collection of highly trained engineers and absolutely run the entire aftermarket Harley-Davidson® industry? This is important now. Which one do you believe? Do you believe there is a Harley-Davidson® University?
Well, if you choose the latter, then adjust your solid lifter valves like Vol. 1 says. One finger dragging against the side of a dry push rod (oil in the tappet cups) - turns the push rod around with no trace of bind. Period.
Re-check them after you tighten the split nut keeper. If you feel a slight bind, then re-adjust them.
Keep in mind that the push rod adjustment for solid lifters comes from Stett, not me. If at any time (even during printing) we needed or wanted or for whatever reason, we wanted to change the text of either Vol. 1 or Vol. 2 we could have done so. All it would have taken was a call to Regent Publishing and our request would have been emailed and the presses would have stopped for us. Changing our text was never an issue for us. We're not Motorbooks INt. or Whitehorse Press. Stett and I controlled all of the content.
None of the procedures in either volume has ever been questioned. Use it. Trust it.ers comes from Stett, not me. If at any time (even during printing) we needed or wanted or for whatever reason, we wanted to change the text of either Vol. 1 or Vol. 2 we could have done so. All it would have taken was a call to Regent Publishing and our request would have been emailed to China and the presses (that run 24/7) would have stopped for us. Changing our text was never an issue for us. We're not Motorbooks Int. or Whitehorse Press. Stett and I controlled all of the content.
None of the procedures in either volume has ever been questioned. Use it. Trust it.

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Re: now for the problems

#7

Post by lockdoc » Wed May 27, 2009 12:26 am

Jeez! Nothing like a God complex. Calm down VT. You could be right, but damn.

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Re: now for the problems

#8

Post by LittleAl » Wed May 27, 2009 3:49 am

On the valve adjustment, I've read right here on H-G that the aluminum pushrods coupled with the solid lifters need to be pretty tight cold due to the different expansion rates once the motor gets hot. What I've read is zero lash then smooth turning without any binding with 1-2-3 fingers & oil in the cup (not dry). that's they way I have them adjusted. the 1/2 additional turn was just a easier way to state it then the long explanation I give here. VT, I think it was just a misunderstanding of my short explanation

I know those through the tank valves can be a pain to get right. I probably made the problem worse by adding 2 O-rings to the assembly. I didn't feel the brass washers would seal well. So now I'm thinking that the when I turn the thumb knob the rod is not seating in the valve because of the extra distance I created. The thumb knob seems to stop at the collar on the top of the tank before the rod seats. I'm gonna take the thumb knob off and see if the rod will screw in more and enough to seal the valve. if it does, I'll remove the O-rings.

I had to shim up the dash base to get the cover to fit so maybe I went to far, I'll take off one of the tanks and remove one of the 3 washers I used for a shim and see if that helps. Maybe I'll also make a rubber gasket "donut" to fit around the switch to cover & insulate the screw tops from the dash cover. I'll see where that gets me

Carb/float deal is a simple fix, I'll just do what I should have done from the start and go through the needle & seat & check the float adjustment

As has been suggested, my clutch may be adjusted wrong and I'm not getting a good spin on the motor when kicking it. I'm sorta leaning that way since it really does seem to kick through too easy and I do get decent (subjective but obviously I think I'm, good on this) compression when I get it. Could be the pushrod adjustment, could be a hanging valve, bad seat, etc but gotta go for the easy stuff first and I'm pretty damn sure that stuff is good so I'll start with finding my compression gauge, then go from there, but I gotta say, leaning towards a clutch problem.

I'm gonna try the suggestion Mike gave to see what is happening looking at the timer as I kick, that will be my first test. It's sorta nice to have that knowledge now too, I never knew how many revolutions one kick through would give, now I do. BTW, I do have the original timer & I'm running single points & condenser.

John, I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your test of the clutch, could you give me a better description? I'm old and stupid, be patient with me, lol

Now that the bike is outside and it's raining and I got home from work after dark all this may have to wait a day or two but I will report back promptly once I can go over it all.

Thanks guys, yet again!

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Re: now for the problems

#9

Post by VintageTwin » Wed May 27, 2009 4:06 am

What I've read is zero lash then smooth turning without any binding with 1-2-3 fingers & oil in the cup (not dry). that's they way I have them adjusted.
If you use two or three fingers, you're forcing the spin. One finger is what you use.
Your adding "O" rings or anything other than the OE style brass is going to throw everything off.
If you try your "own" methods and veer from the printed info, you're going to have problems.
Don't listen to anyone here about solid lifter adjustment, except what the book says. Harley says push rods should turn with no trace of bind." That's too generalized.
Like I said, I didn't think any of this up. I was allowed to obtain the information. No one here has been to Harley school. My co-author has and still receives training from all Harley-Davidson technical programs. As soon as Harley releases information, Stett gets training updates, without leaving his shop.
http://stettsironhorseranch.com/ How many people can advertise Harley-Davidson repair that aren't dealers :?: Show me their storefront sign.

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Re: now for the problems

#10

Post by mbskeam » Wed May 27, 2009 5:10 am

Don't listen to anyone here about solid lifter adjustment, except what the book says. Harley says push rods should turn with no trace of bind." That's too generalized.
you hurt my feeling.....LOL

just a dumb ?....
what do you do about the oil all over every thing after it has run? hmmm

I used to set them that way, but with alum rods you get this.....
ef1f9c41.jpg
this is from being set to loose

I can see this way for steel types but never have run those.....
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Re: now for the problems

#11

Post by mbskeam » Wed May 27, 2009 5:17 am

as to the fuel rod shut off, if there is paint on the seal area, it will leak
I found fiber washers in the plumbing sect of the hardware store that fit and I put
locktite 592 pst pipe sealant on the threaded area when I put it back together, it used to weep but no more
this stuff is made for use with gasoline....

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Re: now for the problems

#12

Post by VintageTwin » Wed May 27, 2009 5:21 am

Not meaning to hurt anyone, especially a new motor.
I don;t know why your push rods collapsed. I've run Colony's aluminum and never had any beaten push rods. What size motor? 74", 80 cu. in. ? What brand push rods. Exactly how did you have them adjusted. All these facts mean something.
Bottom line for me, my motor's 74". Anyone who reads this can do adjust their push rods anyway they want. Just please answer the questions I've ask, so people can see it's apples to apples and not an apples to oranges comparison.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed May 27, 2009 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

LittleAl
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Re: now for the problems

#13

Post by LittleAl » Wed May 27, 2009 5:26 am

I guess I wasn't too clear on the fuel valve problem. It's not leaking at the tank, it doesn't fully stop the gas flowing to the carb.

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Re: now for the problems

#14

Post by VintageTwin » Wed May 27, 2009 5:29 am

It's not leaking at the tank, it doesn't fully stop the gas flowing to the carb
You either have the wrong (early) shut off rod and seat or those "O" rings you used fouled up the spacing of the feed holes. Try it with the brass washers, exactly like Vol. 1 and get back. Even with the Seals-All, gas formulation may eat it up, If so try Hylomar on the 8 surfaces.
locktite 592 pst pipe sealant on the threaded area
Or, this stuff sounds gas-proof.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed May 27, 2009 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: now for the problems

#15

Post by mbskeam » Wed May 27, 2009 6:05 am

the rods are Colony's aluminum,
set them to spin with the side of the finger,
CI do not mean a thing here. 74 or 120...the pushrod is still doing the same thing if the cam lift and valve spring seated and full lift pressure are the same
andrews A grind.

apples is apples...LOL

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