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hard starting 65 fl

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65eglide
Posts: 139
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Bikes: 65 fl
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98 heritage classic
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hard starting 65 fl

#1

Post by 65eglide » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:03 pm

trying to figure out whats going on with this, seem sometimes hitting the starter nothing, all lights bright and battery is fully charged. other times cranks right up. when it doesn't start a few kicks and she fires, then tried tried the electric start and it's fine. I've replaced all the wiring, starter, generator, solenoid, battery wires, start switch. any suggestions?



NightShift
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Bikes: Two Schwinns, a Hercules, and a Hiawatha
Location: Underground in Illinois

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#2

Post by NightShift » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:27 pm

Dear 65eglide,
I know 1965 didnt come with one but a relay might make a difference.

tHeY wAS sTUpId.

R'spectfully,

Bosheff
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm
Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#3

Post by Bosheff » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:15 pm

When yer starter button doesn't get it, try jumping across the solenoid and see what ya git. Check all connections in the starter circuit including the starter button in the bars....bosheff

65eglide
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:29 pm
Bikes: 65 fl
2000 ultra
98 sporty
98 heritage classic
Location: mass

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#4

Post by 65eglide » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:48 am

NightShift wrote:Dear 65eglide,
I know 1965 didnt come with one but a relay might make a difference.

tHeY wAS sTUpId.

R'spectfully,

ya I've thinking about adding one, the starter switch in the handlebars in new

Bosheff
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm
Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#5

Post by Bosheff » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:34 pm

If the starter button in the handlebars is new, and ya didn't have the problem before ya replaced the old button, I'd be lookin in that direction....bosheff

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
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Location: north florida

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#6

Post by fourthgear » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:33 am

Do you have the handle bar mounted kill switch ? If I remember correctly its hooked up funny (compared to late mod . )I think its hooked up to the ing. switch power supply or some thing like that. Not just the coil power supply . I don't have a manual with schedmatic in to see for sure ,but I remember some thing funny or odd about it when I rewired my 65.
Depends how it is wired.
You can get on of those cheap start buttons bad right from the get go , ask me how I know that .

65eglide
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:29 pm
Bikes: 65 fl
2000 ultra
98 sporty
98 heritage classic
Location: mass

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#7

Post by 65eglide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:47 am

the started button I don't think was the problem, as I had it before I replaced it.
it seems after I replaced the + - battery cables it worked fine, then the starter went , replaced that, stiil seems to work alright.
now it's back to were it was before, sometime the starter engages sometimes not. I've basically replaced everything electrical on this bike. It's almost like it's hitting a dead spot in the starter, won't start then after I kick it over and try the starter works ok.

weird..

Well...just went out and tried to start her, starter engages, but turns the motor very slowly, even though the garage is around 40 degrees right now and with the cold thick oil it still should turn the starter alot faster than it is, really seems like it's straining to turn over, battery is always hooked up to a battery tender, I'm wondering if the new battery does not have enough cranking amps to turn this over like it should. I got this battery the past spring and the shop new it was going in a 65 pan, not a sealed battery, but lead acid

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
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Location: north florida

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#8

Post by fourthgear » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:03 am

Dead spot or bad brush,dirty comutator (I think that's whats it called) I have cleaned a lot of them there starters with good results, Just like a gen..
One way to see if its your starter button is to jump it when its screwing up ,(not pulling in the starter), its a sure way to ether eliminate it or see if its some where down the line .

Bosheff
Posts: 1225
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Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#9

Post by Bosheff » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:15 pm

I may be mistaken, but I have never encountered a factory installed kill switch/ kill button on anything that didn't have a factory installed magneto....bosheff

fourthgear
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Location: north florida

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#10

Post by fourthgear » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:10 am

Bosheff wrote:I may be mistaken, but I have never encountered a factory installed kill switch/ kill button on anything that didn't have a factory installed magneto....bosheff
Ya never know what has been added or removed from on of these older HD's. I have not looked yet ,but I know there is some thing odd about the way the 65 's are wired . Being first year of big twin electric leg. I will look when i get home tonight .

fourthgear
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Location: north florida

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#11

Post by fourthgear » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:11 pm

I remembered on the ride home last night what was odd about the 65's wiring(confermed by wiring diagram ,today ) . The power to the starter switch (if wired OEM ) is routed from the neutral switch.( safty feature ,so it won't start in gear ) I used a single post neu. switch on mine insted of the two pole switch that is on the 65's. You may want to look into that is wired as such .

Bosheff
Posts: 1225
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Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#12

Post by Bosheff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:32 pm

Nuetral safety switches when working properly, are like being pregnant. Either you is or you isn't. If the nuetral switch is messin up, usually you can troubleshoot it by lifting up or down on the shifter while yer hittin the button. Or, you can jump the 2 wires together to complete the circuit thus omitting the switch all together. I'm not gettin the impression these are the circumstances he's experiencing....bosheff

Bosheff
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm
Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#13

Post by Bosheff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:48 pm

By jumpin the starter solenoid, you can eliminate a bunch of wiring as well as the starter button, and a bunch of connections. It's kinda like working backwards to diagnose the problem. On the brighter side, you know it's not a starter relay, cause 65's and early 66's didn't have one. If the button works after ya kick start the beast, but only works periodically, leads me to believe the vibration of a running engine is causing a loose connection to make good enough contact to git the job done. I'd check all wiring and connections again. Also, when it come to electrical components, buy the best you can, as it will lead to a lot less headaches down the road. It has been my experience that about 95 percent of the aftermarket electrical components should go into the dumpster right from the assembly line....bosheff

Cotten
Posts: 6911
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#14

Post by Cotten » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:11 pm

Just think:
1965 was just four years prior to American technology putting a man on the Moon.
Yet H-D had no clue what a relay was for.

With power routed direct through a relay, instead of through the grip-warmer switch, suddenly reliability is achieved.

The most difficult aspect is to hide it from the AMCA judges.
Otherwise, a Delo-Remy relay nuts down right on a kickercover stud in nearly the same place as late models, which had a countersunk hole in the battery tray for a screw.

Please, nobody should drill their original battery tray!

....Cotten

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
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Location: north florida

Re: hard starting 65 fl

#15

Post by fourthgear » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:29 pm

The neutral switch single post is not really a switch ,as switches go, it does nothing more than ground to the shifter cam(via a spring loaded plunger) only one lobe of the shifter cam is high enough to contact it ( I think its called a shifter cam in the ratchet top ? Have to look that up or some one correct me).
The two pole switch is a switch ,as it has a set of contacts in it.(1965 )

I used a solid state starter relay on my 65. Small black cube , inexpensive & works great.

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