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gas in crankcase

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kk1340
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Bikes: 1963 FLH 1946 FL 1974 SX 350 1980 FXS 1986 FLHTP 1988 FXST 2004 FLHTPI
Location: leesburg,va

gas in crankcase

#1

Post by kk1340 » Mon May 10, 2010 5:53 pm

i went out to my 63 pan after this winter and i noticed that there was no gas in the tanks and i know i had about a gallon of fuel in the tanks. i changed the oil and started the bike and then checked the oil again. it had more oil in the tank and it was diluted. i have narrowed down the problem as a bad float. i was wondering if there is any way to remove all the crap oil without tearing down the bike. i was thinking of taking off the return line from the filter and putting a hose on it to go into a bucket and add good oil to the tank as i run the bike. any help would be great. thanks keith



Cotten
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: gas in crankcase

#2

Post by Cotten » Mon May 10, 2010 7:24 pm

Keith!

Although your float also might be bad,
it is not the float that prevents seepage over time.
It is the petcock.

I suggest draining the cases by some other means than running the machine, as it could be dangerous in many ways!

Removing the bottom feed line may drain a significant portion over an extended period of time.
Removing the plug at the bottom of the left case is possible, but difficult to replace properly. Take great care to thread it back in squarely if you do: Many booger the threads because of its awkward position near the frame member.

Let us hope that the fuel did not destroy any lining compound within the cases. With luck, nothing red will come out.

Good luck!


....Cotten

Sir_Rat
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Bikes: '37 UL, '79 Frankenstein, '88 Sporty
Location: Oahu Hawaii

Re: gas in crankcase

#3

Post by Sir_Rat » Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

I hate it when that happens!! Just be happy ur not on a sporty!! Happened to mine a few months back only it filled up primary and tranny as well. I drained everything including the filter, filled her up with cheap light weight oil, ran her a few miles then drained everything and filled her again with cheap oil and ran her a few miles more, then drained everything one last time and replaced the filter and put the good stuff in. Clutch went out within the next 10 miles, I guees that glue they use ain't gas proof is it?? CHIT...All this on a new Pengle petcock TOO!!! TRUST NOTHING aftermarket :x

Aloha....Mike

hjans
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Location: Holland

Re: gas in crankcase

#4

Post by hjans » Tue May 11, 2010 7:21 am

agree with Cotten, easiest way !
Prevent ? close the petcock next time !

But : draining the engine at the left side ?
My bike i cannot get the plug out without removing the complete engine. It sits "tight" to the frame.
Maybe another way : remove the timing hole plug, and insert a small tube to the bottom of the engine.
If the tube is small enough this should work.
Then use a vacuum venturi ( with container) or, much safer, a syringe, and suck out the petrol.
Takes a while, but removes the petrol without it pumping through the system.
DO NOT USE AN ELECTRIC PUMP OR VACUUMCLEANER ! GASFUMES AND SPARKS : DEADLY !!
After that change the oil 1 or 2 times.
Hans

kk1340
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Location: leesburg,va

Re: gas in crankcase

#5

Post by kk1340 » Tue May 11, 2010 12:45 pm

thanks for the help. i am going to remove the lower line and let the bike sit for a few days while i try to suck the crap out thru the timing hole .

Bosheff
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Re: gas in crankcase

#6

Post by Bosheff » Tue May 11, 2010 7:02 pm

For effort involved versus damage done, I'd pull the crankcase plug and drain it that way. Yer talkin a complete rebuild of the mill here, and trust me if you don't get all the fuel out of the bottom end yer gonna be replacing parts that you didn't even know existed. I lost a pan engine this very same way years ago. Parts were cheap then, they're not now. Yer only looking at a couple hours or less to loosen and unmount what needs to be, and remount. You don't have to pull the engine, just move it over in the frame enought to pull the plug. I can't image tryin to suck the contaminates with a syringe. You may or may not be able to do it, but yer gonna spend as much time and effort as if you had taken the long road. Better safe then sorry. I wouldn't try to start the engine for the purpose of flushin it clean. I'd try to fill the bottom end with oil, and drain it a couple of times before tryin to start it, so as not to draw any gasoline where it doesn't belong. If yer relyin on the old style, through the tank petcock system, go 1 step further and install an inline positive on/off valve. It might not look good, but you won't have this problem again. Why do ya think the factory updated the petcock in 66?....bosheff

Old Skool
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Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: gas in crankcase

#7

Post by Old Skool » Tue May 11, 2010 7:16 pm

Cotten/Bosheff,

How would you guys rate these Aftermarket "In the Tank" shut off rods? and what can be done to fix/repair the Original ones? Thanks!

Bosheff
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Re: gas in crankcase

#8

Post by Bosheff » Tue May 11, 2010 8:19 pm

I have never been a fan of the pre 66 H-D tanks for the simple reason that the shutoff valve was more trouble than it was worth. As I said earlier, I lost an engine due to the early shut off valve, so I always sought out the shovel tanks, and sold the pan tanks. You guys doin restos haven' got alot of choices, be it genuine H-D or repop. A tank that has been banged or dented is sometimes beyond repairing when it comes to lining up the top with the bottom so as to get a smooth action for turning on/off, and to get the plunger to seat properly. If yer lookin for a tank valve set-up, I still have 1 stock H-D unit I would probably part with if you were interested....bosheff

PanPal
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58 FL
76 FLH All Original
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Re: gas in crankcase

#9

Post by PanPal » Wed May 12, 2010 12:16 am

Old skool, The aftermarket through tank shut off's require work to even funtion. If Bosheff has an original you will be better off.

john HD
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Re: gas in crankcase

#10

Post by john HD » Wed May 12, 2010 2:13 am

Old Skool wrote:Cotten/Bosheff,

How would you guys rate these Aftermarket "In the Tank" shut off rods? and what can be done to fix/repair the Original ones? Thanks!

i would rate the repros horrible to unusable. i fixed my original and have gotten good service out of it.

i heated the threaded portion until i could slide it up the rod then lapped the rod tip to the valve body. once i had a good seal i slid the threaded portion back down a secured it with a bit of solder.

on the other hand, i just got a '45 shut off valve from flatland and it was top notch and worked right out of the box. i would reccomend one of those if you could get one for a panhead.

john

Cotten
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: gas in crankcase

#11

Post by Cotten » Wed May 12, 2010 1:20 pm

The worst aftermarket petcocks had plastic seat inserts.

It must be remembered that this design was used for a quarter-century, but that was back when machines were ridden more often than stored.
Even a near-perfect petcock may still seep over an extended period of time; Draining the fuel (and oil) tanks is prudent for long layovers.
For this reason, many folks prefer a secondary valve in the line, and I encourage it.
(It only takes minutes to swap a "correct" line for judging.)

....Cotten
Last edited by Cotten on Thu May 13, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

john HD
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Re: gas in crankcase

#12

Post by john HD » Thu May 13, 2010 12:47 am

cotten,

do you have a particular favorite inline valve for this purpose?

those of us with even near perfect petcocks may be interested.

john

Cotten
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Re: gas in crankcase

#13

Post by Cotten » Thu May 13, 2010 2:27 pm

John!

Just ordinary hardware store 1/4" brass valves with compression nuts on both sides.
(Blow through them to be certain that they are not restrictive.)

Placement on the line is a matter of personal preference.
GASVALVE.jpg
...Cotten
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DuoGlide62
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Bikes: 1962 FL
Location: Chicago, Ill.

Re: gas in crankcase

#14

Post by DuoGlide62 » Sun May 16, 2010 12:26 am

Pretty simple fix. This might be simpler. I use rubber hose gas line. I change it every winter.
About two blocks from home I screw down the stock shut off valve. Once home I let it idle
until the bowl empties and it stops running. I quickly turn off the ignition and apply my x-ternal
shut off. Works like a charm and I don't worry about 'correctness'.

http://pan-clan.com/

hjans
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Location: Holland

Re: gas in crankcase

#15

Post by hjans » Mon May 17, 2010 6:03 pm

Cotten

No problems with heat since your / this fuelline is non-insulated ?
Hans

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