Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

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Henrik_K
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Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#1

Post by Henrik_K » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:31 pm

Just bought an '56 FL with a Pan on it.

I can't start on the Kick - Actually - I can turn the engine over several times with my hands.

It seems to me the compression must be to low - and it wont start.

However; When push-started - it runs like a charm....

Should I take the heads off or ???

Rgds, Henrik



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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#2

Post by Bigincher » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:54 pm

Why not run a simple static compression test before you start ripping things apart? You can use the cheap automotive kind that you hold in the spark plug hole. Be sure to crank the throttle wide open when you run the test, and hold the tester on tightly for about 3 or 4 compression strokes. Make several tests on each cylinder.
It's not uncommon to be able to crank the motor over by hand--- what you're looking for with the compression test is something hopefully around, ...oh, 80-psi or higher, and for the two cylinders to be within about 10% of each other. If you have drastically low compression, squirt some motor oil in each cylinder, and run the test again. If the readings come up, that would indicate ring blowby. If the readings remain low, it would indicate valves need ground.

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#3

Post by Henrik_K » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:00 pm

Yeah, Good Idea...

I'll try that tomorrow - Thanks for the feedback.

john HD
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#4

Post by john HD » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:47 am

quick check of the push rods may be in order!

john

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#5

Post by Henrik_K » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:47 am

@John: your thinking about stuck valves/push-ords?

It's just odd - that it runs okay - when push-started. But yes - i'll check the clearance of the pushrods.

Thanks

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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#6

Post by Bigincher » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:05 pm

john HD wrote:quick check of the push rods may be in order!
john
Yes, good point. If the pushrods are too tight, it will prevent the valves from closing fully and making good compression. Curious--- if this was the case, would the motor still run okay once it was started? Or perhaps it would just never get started....

john HD
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#7

Post by john HD » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:09 pm

i just mentioned it because doing the easy stuff first might save a bigger job later.

battery charged up?

john

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#8

Post by Henrik_K » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:04 pm

Update:

Tried a compression test today.

It could barely sneak up to 3 bar on each cylinder. With oil in the cylinder - a little more compression - but not much.

Still have to check push-rod though...

/Henrik

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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#9

Post by RUBONE » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:18 pm

A compression check without checking pushrods first is a waste of time! IMHO :roll:
Robbie

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#10

Post by Henrik_K » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:40 pm

Yeah, you might be right. Didn't have much time - but was currious ....

Anyway - If the pushrods are adjusted ok - I don't have to do the comptest - otherwise I have to...

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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#11

Post by Frankenstein » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:02 am

If the bike had an old Sifton "412" cam installed back in the day That might be a consideration. They had lots of overlap, and you could easily kick them over with your hand. And it would run just fine, of course, when started. There may be carb or ignition issues preventing kick starting.
Just offering an alternative that you might want to consider.
DD

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#12

Post by Henrik_K » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:49 am

@Frankenstein: By overlap - do you mean it acutally is okay (compression wise) - and the problem must/could be in Carb/Ignition?

But how would I know if the compression is actually oaky - if it got the "Sifton" cam?

I would like to focus on the compression first - to avoid to much waste of time..

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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#13

Post by Frankenstein » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:27 am

Right, the compression COULD be o.k. But, the Sifton cam is just one possibility. The other advice you've gotten here is all good. If the engine has set for a long while, valve seats may need redoing, the rings may have setup, etc. Do a good compression check, check ignition for clean, properly gapped points, maybe replace the condenser as a better safe than sorry move.
Even if you do get it to start,you should probably remove the heads, just to be safe. If the valves aren't seating properly, doing it now just means lapping in the valves. Waiting could mean burning valves and more major repairs.
I just mentioned the Sifton cam as one possibility. Popping the cam cover off and seeing what is in there isn't hard, and will give you more info on your new toy.
DD

Henrik_K
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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#14

Post by Henrik_K » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:27 pm

Okay guys - here's status so far:

I've the valves and pushrods. All four pushrods seems to be working fine. Both intake valves were adjusted okay. Both Exhaust valves were too tight - and I loosen them.

I redid the compressiontest. Rear cylinder 3.1 bar - Front 4 bar.

I bought new sparkplugs - just in case.

Only when I put some Dieselstart in the Carb - it will give a little fart - otherwise not. Even with dieselstart it's not really comming to live.

The ignition is full advanced, Fuel flowing to the carb.

Isn't the compression to low to really get it started?

Any suggestions?

Rgds, Henrik

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Re: Kicking Pan with my Hands.....

#15

Post by john HD » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:55 pm

john HD wrote:i just mentioned it because doing the easy stuff first might save a bigger job later.

battery charged up?

john

and how is the battery? these generator bikes will start and run on a dead battery if roll started.

kicking a bike with a low battery is another matter all together!

john

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