Another Pan that won't start

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ODDitsODD
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Another Pan that won't start

#1

Post by ODDitsODD » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:21 pm

Well here we go again... I have yet another Pan that won't start... I've had the Ol Gal for over 30 years and have lost many a bet as to how many kicks it'll take.. I've tried it all SS-B SS-shorty Bendex Linkert Joe hunt dry cell battery.... It's not 180 out... No leaks... She'll start when she wants to... About once every year... The Wife thinks I'm going to hurt myself kickin her... Is there a Electric start for a 58 tin primary?? Rollers??? Or do I just need to live on a bigger hill...

Odd



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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#2

Post by mr. z » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:59 pm

Well, if it were me, I'd do my best to be sure the points and timing were spot-on, then check pushrod adjustment, plugs, and whatever I could do to make the carb behave. Also things like compression. There is no reason that bike should not be able to kick-start consistently, however if you really what an electric start kit for tin primary(64 and earlier) bikes, there's a company called Tech Cycle that produces them, sorry, don't have a direct link on hand.

Good Luck, and hava Happy 4th

Robert Luland
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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#3

Post by Robert Luland » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:13 pm

What cam are ya running. If you got a high lift with a long duration, you'll be kick'in till the cows come home. Then theres Tom's thing. Intake leaks. Bob L

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#4

Post by PanJud » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:25 pm

As my mechanic says when I approach him with such things, "If it's tuned/timed right, It will start EVERY time" (I'm somewhat dubious, but the guy's been working on bikes longer than I've been alive, so I'll defer to him)

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#5

Post by steve_wood » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:15 pm

Okay, lots to do:

- Carburetor: You need to start with a known-good unit. I would suggest sending you linkert to Tom Cotten at Liberty Motorcycles for a rebuild. He's a member on this forum and the master of Linkert carbs.

- Intake manifold: This must be perfectly installed. It is a major cause of hard-to-start mills. Check in the knowledge base for more on this subject. One of the members here, mbskeam has a great tool for this http://www.geocities.com/mbskeam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Electrics: Find a known-good set of everything (plugs, coil, condensor, etc)

- Compression: Run a compression test. If there are any issues, run a leak down test to isolate the problem

- Clutch: Are you sure the clutch isn't slipping when you're kicking?

- Cam: Last but not least, like Bob said, put a known-good cam in it.

Like I said, lots to do. But you can work it one thing at a time. Start with the intake manifold leak test and if that's an issue, once you fix it you might just be all set.

steve

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#6

Post by mr. z » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:36 pm

I agree, forgot to mention the intake manifold. Seeing that he's changed carbs so much, the integrety of the manifold's seal may have been compromised, ya just never know.

I would much prefer him getting it to run and start as it should rather then spending BIG bucks going to electric start, which by the way carries with it its own can of worms to deal with.

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#7

Post by MAYANFOOL » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:43 am

Greetings everyone, just joined and was reading the post. pans are a odd lady to say the least. empiricaly these tractors need to be made yours. But one post did state that if every thing is spot on they will start, I agree. If it's a manual advance get her at top dead, manual advance her until just barely opening and adjust to the thickness of a rolling paper. Try that. Another thing i've done is manual advance them half way. In closing, they do make a electric start conversion for tin primaries. Tech Performance makes them, pricey, but the hardware is solid, American made, landed two and they still work. Not for the faint of heart. From san diego, hope to visit often.

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#8

Post by Robert Luland » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:56 am

This is all in great but the man all ready stated that he has done everything you guys suggested. This is why I pointed at the cam. This not the first time I’ve run into a situation where someone installed a bad ass cam and passed the bike onto the next sucker. Bob L

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#9

Post by panhead_kicker » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:16 pm

I was having starting issues related to ignition missing out frequently. I took out the circuit breaker , coils etc and hooked to good battery on my bench. Spinning the breaker by hand I could see the plugs not firing consistently. Found the points were wobbling a bit on the breaker pivot shaft. Cut a small aluminum shim (thanks Blatz) to tighten up points fit. Dressed the points flat. New Bosch plugs, condenser. ONE of those things I did fixed the problem. (I think it was the wobble, still can't figure out how that shaft got so eat up to begin with )

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#10

Post by ODDitsODD » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:51 pm

WOW... A lot of info... Thanks to all.. What about the shority??? I think I'm going to try time to the dot with the paper... I've done that in the past... And get rid of the bendix...
Thanks for the brain rattle.. And yes I bleave I put in a hotter cam at one point... I've had her for a long long time.. I was 18 when she came into my life... She's the longest relationship I've had.
Thanks for all the info...
I'll keep in touch..
ODD

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#11

Post by Cotten » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:43 pm

Odd!

I believe you will want to time to the line, not the dot.

As Mike pointed out, manifolds can be tempermental.
You may avoid a lot of tailchasing by bubble-testing your assembly as discussed at http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html.
A #9 rubber stopper with a hole through it can work as well as a testplate, but it takes three hands.

Good luck,

....Cotten

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#12

Post by ODDitsODD » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:51 am

Thanks Cotton..

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#13

Post by ODDitsODD » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:02 am

I re-timed this morning.. It wasn't bad... New points and con.. GAP on points .016.. I had one sputter in ten kicks... Shut her down and will do a leak check on the Man.
I the past she ran fine with both the Bendex and the S&S - E.. Has anyone had better luck with one?? I have both on the shelf. Well the Bendix is in the Pan now but I'm doing the leak check and it'd be nothing to change..
Benkix or S&S-E...

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Re: Another Pan that won't start

#14

Post by ODDitsODD » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:17 pm

I had a manifold leak on the rear head.. New o-rings and a couple of on and offs and the leak is gone... Thanks for the help as to how to check... If you missed it I took .5 delrin and machined it to fit over the manifold. Removed the carb and instaled the new part. I set my reg. to 15 PSI and with the air flow I turned over the motor till the valves were closed. at this point I sprayed soap water on the manifold and checked for leaks...
But she still won't start.. Well not on the first few kicks.. I stop at 10... If she won't start in 10 i need another fix... today i'm looking at the push rods...

ODD

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