My 58 FL

Show or brag about your projects or rebuilds.
Post Reply
hplhd
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:16 pm
Bikes: 1998 heritage springer
1959 FLH
Location: indiana, usa
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: My 58 FL

#226

Post by hplhd » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:00 pm

George, congrats on the start up and nearing the end of the build. I followed along with many others from the beginning and am happy for ya.



Andygears
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am
Bikes: 1950 panhead, 1999 FLHTCI, 1987 FLHTC custom
Location: Daytona Beach
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: My 58 FL

#227

Post by Andygears » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:14 pm

Now a test ride.... Congratulations on getting it done, sounds like you had very few issues. Get a plate on that thing!

Andygears

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#228

Post by George Greer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:18 pm

Fellas,,,,,,,,,,

Setback.

Weather here has been rainy for 3 days. And in that three days, the battery's down to 10 volts.....don't know why. But I will probably need to trouble shoot a parasite power draw.........and the charging system and regulator. I'll be back for questions for sure.

charged battery, and yep........Won't start.

Pulled plugs, oily and fouled.

Going to look at a restrictor to the overhead oiler supply line, cuz I think that I might be getting too much oil to the heads, and I am trying to fire up a oil/gas mix instead of gas.

Checking tomorrow, the timing, manifold bubble test, and while the carb is off, checking over the settings and making sure that the float is not jamming up on the carb stem making sure that the float is not part of the issue.

I'll be back..

Sooo close.

George

RUBONE
Moderator
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: My 58 FL

#229

Post by RUBONE » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:56 pm

Going to look at a restrictor to the overhead oiler supply line, cuz I think that I might be getting too much oil to the heads, and I am trying to fire up a oil/gas mix instead of gas.
Pissing in the wind. They never needed one. If the heads are full of oil it is a return problem, not a feed problem.

Andygears
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am
Bikes: 1950 panhead, 1999 FLHTCI, 1987 FLHTC custom
Location: Daytona Beach
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: My 58 FL

#230

Post by Andygears » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm

Slow down, kicking a new motor with weak spark from a dead battery will make the plugs look like shit. With the plugs out, gas off, choke open, maybe air cleaner off, kick it a bunch. Then, fully charge the battery, put new plugs in and try again. Something may be wrong, or not, but finding it and understanding what’s wrong is clearer when it’s nearly running, like now.

Why do you think the heads are full of oil?

My two cents
Andygears

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#231

Post by George Greer » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:59 am

Andy,

Here goes my inexperience..........

I was going over posts about panhead's on this board, Flatheadpower and others........and some of the advice given by various people that was having problems with fouling plugs, was to install a restrictor in line to the heads, given since the heads were never put together with valve seals, that restricting the oil to the heads would lessen the chance of fouled plugs.

I won't install any, I will make sure the oil is returning to the tank, which I think it is doing, because the oil level is about the same when I initially serviced the oil tank and primed the engine.

Thanks ...

George

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#232

Post by George Greer » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:02 pm

OK,

Charged battery to 12.2 Volts, made a test terminal block with a switch till I figure this out and made the fuse holder more accessible.

Started over with the carb initial settings, and tried to start her up. No go, then I realized that perhaps the circuit breaker was not retarded enough, so I opened it up to half way.

After about 20 or so kicks, she started, no smoking, no weird noises, and while I was at it, I had already hooked up a multimeter to the test block and with the engine running, it was reading 12.5 Volts. So I am reasonably sure that the generator I put together is working correctly and producing voltage. Plus the gen light goes out.

So, I have a timing and fuel delivery issue that will be going over again. Since I only have it static timed, I will double check it, and mabey get a strobe light.

Plus, just as I shut it off, I noticed a slight whisp of smoke from the dash area, and yep blowed a fuse. the insulation that I but on the dash's reinforcing rib was not enough.........I took it to the basement and using my milling machine, I milled the whole damn rib out......no shorting there again. Where it was touching might have been just enough contact to draw the battery down it 3 days........BUT.... not enough to cause the fuse to blow....(just thinking here).

George

PS, sorry if I am overthinking and overreacting on this project.....just me. :oops:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

panhead
Site Admin
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:17 pm
Bikes: 1954 FL
Location: Holland
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: My 58 FL

#233

Post by panhead » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:36 pm

Did you check if the plugs give a spark?

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 805
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Resto-Mod Panhead,
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: My 58 FL

#234

Post by RooDog » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 pm

George....
Your voltages seem low to me> 12.5 for the batt, and 13 running voltages are the minimums I like to see.
I have permanently installed V-meters an all my scooters reading off the iggy terminal of the switch....
....RooDog...

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#235

Post by George Greer » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:18 pm

Went to ground Zero.

Pulled plugs, timing plug, circuit breaker cap.

Number 1 cylinder on compression stroke with timing mark dead center of hole, marks on the circuit breaker still in alignment, but points had almost closed.

Readjusted points, tried to start but only got a couple of coughs.

I am pretty much convinced that the issue now, is fuel related.

Going over the M-74 tomorrow...........kicker leg is worn out.

George

PS EDIT: I have not changed the condenser yet, but I think I have a brand new one in the basement and if I do, I am going to replace it tomorrow.

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 805
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Resto-Mod Panhead,
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: My 58 FL

#236

Post by RooDog » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 pm

Set the points' gap before adjusting the timing. The timing plug hole is 10 degrees wide and the book should say to use the back edge of the hole for 35* of advance, no? Then go rotate the breaker plate to get the points just opening. The marks on the circuit breaker body and cam are like stop signs and speed limits (just suggestions), only for reference and are not ACTUAL timing marks. Too much advance will kick back, or cause detonation, spark knock, pinging, and engine destruction. Too little advance will cause the engine to run hot, and blue the exhaust pipes, burn the ex valves. Goldilocks, just right, is in the sweet spot, but there is still 5-10 degrees of variance where a stock engine will function well. Big cams and high compression are more sensitive to timing. How much comp are you running with that B grind cam anyway?
....RooDog....

Andygears
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am
Bikes: 1950 panhead, 1999 FLHTCI, 1987 FLHTC custom
Location: Daytona Beach
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: My 58 FL

#237

Post by Andygears » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:42 pm

I agree with RooDog. Those pan circuit breakers can be funny. The way I like to do it is one thing at a time. First get the timing mark in the back half of the timing hole, usually with plugs out by turning the rear wheel, always turning forward. Then loosen the wire clamp on the circuit breaker, disconnect the coil to CB wire at the coil, hook your meter on Ohms to the disconnected wire & ground. Loosen the nut on the wire clamp, move the CB to the high point of the cam, set the point gap. Move the CB fully advanced, the Ohms should read open, disconnected. Move the CB toward retard, as soon as you move it, any, the Ohms should read connected. Juggle the slide thing till you get that. Tighten the nut, recheck with the Ohmmeter. Often things move when you tighten the nut. When your happy with the timing, roll the engine some and recheck the point gap. Lastly, turn the handlebar spiral against the stop, thee CB to full advance against the stop and tighten the wire, reconnect the coil.

Reason I say the pan CB is funny is the whole bouncy sort of setup to hold the upper breaker body, a bail (wire) to hold a minimal spring against the bottom of the body, then let’s hook up a hard wire with lots of leverage to twist it and try to cock it out of line, now bounce it down the road, on a vibrating motor with the points breaking reliably 1000’s of times a minute. They work good when you get them set with well fitting parts.

Andygears

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#238

Post by George Greer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:53 am

Thanks Andy,

I haven't done anything to her this morning and I will use your method and try it all again prior to messing with the carb.

I surely doing something stupidly incorrect or out of sequence.

But given it will eventually start up and run good, I am with all you guys tips and assistance......on the right path.

Thanks.

George

George Greer
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am
Bikes: 1942 WLA Type III
Hybrid WL/KH bobber project.
58 FL
Location: Markt Einersheim, Bavaria. and soon to be back in the US, Portland Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: My 58 FL

#239

Post by George Greer » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:38 pm

OK fellas,

Here comes the ID10T part of me.

Started looking over the M-74, the Low speed needle...........surely was not what I believed that I installed, the one in it was about a inch shorter than the proper 3 1/2" long needle......so, went to the basement, looked at the WL/KL project engine, and noticed the M-74 on it, well it was the one that I was going to install on the pan.......It is a M-74 B (sans Serif)..... I took the carb I had installed on the pan engine OFF.....took them both apart and made sure all the correct needles was now installed, and made sure the float level was correct.

Put the carb on the pan, made sure no leaks, and set high speed needle to 2 1/2 turns out, and low speed needle to 5 turns out.

Tried to start it up..........Not even a pop.

Sooo,

Took off the circuit breaker cover, and found that the points had once again closed, and "had risen up the pivot shaft" and the points were only halfway contacting.

Every single adjustment, nothing......went to Andys method, and noticed the top would not come back to the marks I put on the body and shaft... and was starting to feel harder and harder to rotate.

Got a bit peeved with the entire working of the manual advance..........so back to the basement and box of electrical stuff........dug out the Single point auto-advance unit and replacement parts........and overhauled it.

Using Robbie's advice on how to remove a circuit breaker without taking off the heads, I removed the manual advance unit, and installed the auto advance unit, kicked it thru about 20 times and checked on the points.......and they stayed where I put them at .020 thou. That part I am happy about.

Ran out of time and daylight, so the timing and attempt to start will have to be tomorrow. While I am at it with the timing, I intend to recheck the valve pushrod adjustment, just to ensure that I don't have a valve that's not fully closed.

Hopefully, this time I will get her started, and run right, cuz my kicker leg sure is sore :oops:

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 805
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Resto-Mod Panhead,
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: My 58 FL

#240

Post by RooDog » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:02 pm

I can't imagine removing a head to install a dizzy, you have a stock dizzy, why remove the head? None of the stock ones require such a move. Magnetos, yes, and maybe some of the aftermarket auto advancers too. But a stock dizzy, if you remove the cap, duh!, and the breaker body, the base should simply drop into place. Now the inboard attaching bolt, that can be challenging, but I bent up a special 7/16 wrench dedicated for that chore. To me, there has to be a better alternative to removing a cylinder head.....
....RooDog.....

Post Reply

Return to “Projects”