Panhead

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Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#16

Post by Blackattack300 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:29 pm

Thanks.
I have heard of aftermarket fuel pumps you can retro fit.
I might look into it. I wonder if a butterfly choke between the filter and carb would work ?

And the oil filter info is good to know. I would never have knew that.

Cannot thank you all enough for the handy info and helpful tips.



Doc37W
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Re: Panhead

#17

Post by Doc37W » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:39 pm

The accelerator pump I was talking about is the plunger style that was on the H-D Tillotson/Bendix carbs in the late '60s- early '70s, Attaches a small lever to the oppisite side of the butterfly shaft, so when you open the throttle, it pushs the plunger down into a well cast into the float bowl, forcing gas thru a passage that leads to the carb throat. The kit I was referring to contained : the bowl, plunger w/boot, new butterfly shaft, lever & screw. Not an electric fuel pump. The S &S B carb has an enrichener on top you pull up to let more gas to the fuel mix when starting. A butterfly choke like you were referring to would not allow for the airfilter backing plate to be fitted on the carb without making the airfilter to stick farther out, giving the rider less leg room. That's why S & S used the enrichener. Doc

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#18

Post by Blackattack300 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:47 am

Sorry doc, I was thinking “accelerator pump” , but typed “fuel pump”.
Has anyone tried a “ thunder jet “ ?.

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#19

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:50 am

Ok
I put fresh fuel in ,a few kicks.
Started on the first kick with the throttle open.
Rode it up and down the street and remembered how bad the front end feels.
I have that drum front end to put on , but my major problem is the modified head stem rake.
Is an original head stem 30 degree’s ? I measured this bike at 45 deg( not sure if I measured it the correct way ). Here in australia , I think 6 degrees over is illegal.
Has anyone de-raked their frame ? What is the best way to get it done ?

dcmc
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Re: Panhead

#20

Post by dcmc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:35 am

Photos please
I've never seen a 1941 panhead

Bigincher
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Re: Panhead

#21

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:44 am

Blackattack300 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:50 am
Has anyone de-raked their frame ? What is the best way to get it done ?
I have not de-raked MY frame, but working with Richard at Wasco Frame Service, I have been involved in de-raking many old chopper frames.
If you are a qualified, skilled metal worker and welder (Tig, preferably), with "an eye" (this is important; not everyone has "an eye"), and have the proper tools, you may be successful in tackling this yourself. But truthfully, to do it right it must be put on a dedicated frame table to assure accuracy.
I'll give you the basic steps.
Usually the way a rake job was done was to torch out the triangle portion of the steering head containing the fork lock (on a panhead frame), heating the neck with a torch until cherry red, bending the neck to increase the rake, then adding flat bar at the bottom and plates on the sides.
The first thing to do is remove the side plates (gussets). Often these are thin, 1/4" or less. I like to cut the welds with a small 3" or 5" cutoff wheel. Once you get one side off, the other is easier.
Sometimes you'll find that a lot of the original neck casting is still there, but the fork lock has been ground down so it doesn't protrude. Regardless, in most cases it's easiest and best to plan on replacing the entire section that includes the fork lock. (Wasco makes and sells this piece.)
You need heat from a torch to warm up the neck where it needs to be put back in its original position. You'll be able to see all this. The frame should be bolted or otherwise secured to a sturdy, heavy, stable support or table.
You'll also need a long solid rod about 4 or 5 feet long. We have special cups the replace the fork bearing ups that we use to pass the long rod through. It's important to keep the top and bottom cups in alignment with each other. It will serve you well to spend some time and effort fabricating what you need for this step before proceeding. Use sacrificial bearing cups if need be.
Once you're set up for the de-rake motion, heat the casting in the appropriate area to the right temperature (skilled metal workers tell by the color), and use the long rod to close the gap at the triangle section of the neck. We have a special fixture that fits in the top cup that tells us the correct angle.
The difficulty here is pulling/pushing the rod straight back without veering to one side or the other. That's when it goes on the table to check for true. Without the table, you'll be left using "an eye".
When the correct angle is achieved and the neck is true, the process of welding in the replacement casting begins. There is usually considerable cosmetic work, as well.
One of the biggest problems that happens is, the action of raking stretches the metal around the top of the neck, then pulling it back causes it to go out-of-round. It's a big problem because the bearing cup must fit and also align with the bottom cup. This is the single biggest difficulty in the entire process. Sometimes we get less scientific and more gorilla in our approach and must use large lead hammers weighing up to 20 pounds. You can't buy these hammers, they are special made.
There's more to the process than what I've tried to explain, of course, and I apologize for the length of this post. All the castings, brackets, mounts, and pieces you will need to de-rake and restore the neck are available at Wasco. Probably other places will offer repair parts, but Wasco's are cast steel which weld easily and cleanly, and tried and proven for fitness and accuracy.
If you lived in the US, I'd just say "Send it, we'll fix it." but obviously that won't happen.
I wish I could help you more with this. I've done many, but explaining it is harder than doing it. If you need more detailed explanation, I'll be happy to help all I can, just send me a Private Message.
Last edited by Bigincher on Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

Bigincher
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Re: Panhead

#22

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:48 am

dcmc wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:35 am
Photos please
I've never seen a 1941 panhead
Think "knucklehead cases" (how fast can you distinguish between knuckle and pan cases?) with panhead cylinders and heads. If you can't visualize that, I'll post pictures.

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#23

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:02 am

dcmc wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:35 am
Photos please
I've never seen a 1941 panhead
? Either have I. Not really sure what you are asking for.

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#24

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:23 am

That’s the advice I needed to hear. Appreciate it and I’m sure all on here like to read this stuff. I’ll put some close ups of the rake job that was done. The cast replacement piece you described sounds like the way to go.
Much appreciated.

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#25

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:10 pm

Here is a few pics. Looks like a locating socket has been welded in to hold the oil cooler ,?

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Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#26

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:34 pm

This is the adjustable front end that’s on this bike


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Bigincher
Posts: 2828
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
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Re: Panhead

#27

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:46 pm

Is that a shovelhead frame? Need to get a better ID on what you have there....

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#28

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:18 pm

Bigincher wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:46 pm
Is that a shovelhead frame? Need to get a better ID on what you have there....
Drop saddle (seat) frame. Horseshoe tank.round swing arm. 58 on the lower frame castings. I’m sure it’s one of only a few original Pan parts left on this bike.


Image

Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#29

Post by Blackattack300 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:28 pm

The frame has a VIN number stamped into it. All pre VIN number frames in australia were allocated a “ roads and traffic authority “ number or a “ police issued “ number.
Is this the reason you thought it’s a later frame ?


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Blackattack300
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Bikes: 1960 pan. 1983 shovelhead. 2013 slim.
Location: Australia

Re: Panhead

#30

Post by Blackattack300 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:37 am

Thank you for the advice
How good is Wasco frame service. makes life easy.
That cast de-rake kit with the key lock and pin is ideal. The locking pin is out of stock. is it a part that can be inserted after the de-raking ?. When it’s available or sourced elsewhere .
Is the cast piece at the correct degrees when it’s butted up against the neck and up-tubes ?.( or close to ).(30 deg ?)
Pan heads are few and far between around here. So I don’t have a stock bike to use as a reference.

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