Building from a Pile of Parts

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panz4ever
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Building from a Pile of Parts

#1

Post by panz4ever » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:19 am

Since I am taking a step back, or two, on my 49 rebuild I decided to go through my pile-of-parts and see what I could cob together to build another chop. What I came up with...

Knuckle frame that has been modified to take a pan motor (salvage yard 5-dollar special some 20-something years ago), 56 case, 60 cylinders, 48 heads, 61 flywheels and dual point timer, 51-53 tanks, 77 tranny case, 50s front end, 19 front w/ brake drum/16 rear w/ disc (not sure whose), remains of a 49 fender on rear (no fender on front allowed), know nothing about seat other than I picked it up at a swap meet cuz I liked it, think a Bates p-pad (worn but useable), handle bars (don't remember), extended risers (J&P).

herez the questions...

Any problem using the 48 heads on the 56/60/61 combo. Only major changes to affect early heads on late components were outside oilers added in the 60s? Probably use the steel inserts to modify the heads to take the o-ring manifold (just cant do the weld on thing; heads are in very nice shape overall). Have a Linkert, but also have an S&S and an old Mikuni from another pan chop project from the 70s.

From what I can surmise, I will need to change the pinion shaft to a 55-57 type, yes? And since I dug up a complete electric start set up I am adding that to the mix as well. Took a couple of mods but it works well. With that I will need to use the longer motor sprocket shaft to adjust for the aluminum inner primary. Remember guys avoided that by dumping the compensator and reversing the sprocket. Any one done it or got a build set up that way?

Hve what I think is a 52 panhead oil pump. Can I use that on this motor? If the answer is yes what modifications am i looking at to gears for pump and/or related parts. Sure as hell don't want to fry the motor due to not enough oil.

Idea is to have solid motor/tranny, rattle can finsh, assembled with nuts and bolts I have. Should get me on short runs on 2-lane black to west of the Rockies. trying to keep this ona very reasonable budget since most of the money is going to the 49.

Couple of pics...

Comments and answers questions highly recommended/appreciated as well as tips to avoid screwing this up.
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NYFB
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#2

Post by NYFB » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:13 am

the heads in the pics sure look like outside oiler heads to me..
What makes you say they're '48?

Bosheff
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#3

Post by Bosheff » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:36 am

The number side case appears to be a 65-69 piece which would in fact let ya tie it all together. If this is in fact the case, use a 65-69 motor sprocket shaft, and a 65-69 tranny mainshaft and ya got it dicked as far as things linin up in the primary. I see what appears to be the correct inner primary case to do this....bosheff

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#4

Post by Cotten » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:27 pm

I don't know how outside oiler heads could have plumber's nipples, but I certainly would leave the nipples alone, if they pass a pressure test.

....Cotten

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#5

Post by LUCKYMAN » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Any chance you would like to sell your 49 fender section????? I have a 50 with no rear fender....thanks...

Bosheff
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#6

Post by Bosheff » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:08 pm

If the heads in the pic's are the ones he's gonna run, they sure look like oiler heads to me....bosheff

panz4ever
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#7

Post by panz4ever » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:51 pm

Yeah, they are, pic was taken before I decided to put the other heads on. Saving them as a back up set for the 65 pan. K, with that laid to rest, how about some feedback on the questions. I know not everyone here is running stock...

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#8

Post by steinauge » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:26 pm

The 48 heads will work fine.If they have plumber nipples in them, Like Cotten says I would leave them there if they arent leaking.If you are going to use the screw in adaptors there are two problems you will need to deal with,1-leakage around the adaptors-if the thread fit is good I use aviation permatex on the threads-if the threads are damaged I use JB weld.Lots of folks claim JB weld wont work here but I have used it succesfully as a patch for this problem many times.RUN A CARB SUPPORT!2-manifold width,if the adaptors get screwed in too far or not far enough you can run into this.I suggest you do a trial assembly to make sure this is right.The 52 oil pump will work fine if the body is good.If your right case is a 56 you can run the 54-57 style pinion shaft and main brg setup or,if you have the correct pieces the 48-53 style.It is just a matter of which parts you have more of.HTH

panz4ever
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#9

Post by panz4ever » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:45 am

Steinauge, thanks for the tips.

Got to looking at the motor sprocket on the flywheels and the one on my 65 and it looks like the only difference on the motor sprocket from kick to electric is that the 65 is a bit longer to compensate for the aluminum inner. Does this translate to rear chain/tranny alignment problems. The primary chain will be aligned according to the manual. Wondering if I will need to off set the rear wheel sprocket to keep alignment right

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#10

Post by fourthgear » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:43 am

panz4ever wrote:Steinauge, thanks for the tips.

Got to looking at the motor sprocket on the flywheels and the one on my 65 and it looks like the only difference on the motor sprocket from kick to electric is that the 65 is a bit longer to compensate for the aluminum inner. Does this translate to rear chain/tranny alignment problems. The primary chain will be aligned according to the manual. Wondering if I will need to off set the rear wheel sprocket to keep alignment right
If you have a 65 sprocket shaft ,you would need a 65-66 main shaft for the tranny to keep it in line. That looks like a newer tranny, what is the length of its shaft ? They had three lengths for the four speed.

panz4ever
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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#11

Post by panz4ever » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:54 am

fourthgear, I will be using the 65-69 mainshaft. Tranny case is stamped '77

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#12

Post by fourthgear » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:34 am

You will also need the inner primary to match the three bolt mtr. case. You can get after market inner primarys( at least you used to ) but the outer primary for those years may be hard to find . You can use a 70& up outer primary ,I have one on my 65 & it worked with some tweeking.

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#13

Post by steinauge » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:58 pm

If you are not running electric start you can always run an open belt drive or aftermarket inner tin primary\tin outer and chain setup.If you want to run the tins you will need to cut the ears off the late trans case.

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#14

Post by Bosheff » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:46 pm

In the pic showing the primary side of the scooter there appears to be a 65-69 inner chain case. As for running the 65-L78 trans case with the ears with a tin inner. If you choose to go this route you will have to run an aftermarket bearing support, or one can be fabricated from a stock inner aluminum case. At an rate a bearing support must be used with a -65 mainshaft. Use the bearing support for a template, and cut out the tin inner and you can run the trans case with ears, have a bearing support, and run the tin inner and outer. With this setup you can run a belt or chain. From what I can see in the 2 photos, he has all the necessary pieces to tie the engine and trans together. Just use a -65 motor sprocket shaft, and a -65 mainshaft and everything will line up properly. Of course the correct sprocket shaft spacer must be used to fine tune the sprocket or pulley with the clutch shell....bosheff

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Re: Building from a Pile of Parts

#15

Post by steinauge » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:51 pm

In the past I have seen quite a few bikes run with a 65-69 mainshaft\sprocket shaft combo with the ears cut off the trans case and tin primaries.All they had done was to space the primaries out a little bit.Dont recall seeing any problems. I understand the potential problems here,just never saw them.

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