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tranny leak

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Huck
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Re: tranny leak

#76

Post by Huck » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:47 pm

At times the culprit is the actually the shifter fork shaft.



Cotten
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Re: tranny leak

#77

Post by Cotten » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:27 pm

Richie!

A lack of a seal is one more reason to dismiss any miniscule spline leak, unless the nut comes loose, and it becomes real.

The longer early MDG bushing was superior to the later, because it allowed less 'rocking' of the gear from the opposing forces of the two chains.
The slinger kept back just enough oil back while running, and allowed contaminants to flow out, replenished by fresh oil instead of stagnating behind the seal.
The excess was diverted by the deflector to inside of the primary, where it was needed upon the clutchdrum sprocket.

Yes, that open oval back of the primary chainguard is mess with mist by design, and not for the obsessively anal. But that is what "well oiled machines" were all about, and a part of History that I see no need to erase.

And Huck!

Don't forget the countershaft, around the big main seal when the case has been gouged, past the main seal at a worn spacer, or even from a tired base stud.

If you had a fluorescent dye and lamp, you wouldn't even have to clean everything first.

You might even find an old weld repair or a casting porosity.

....Cotten

bangkok bob
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Re: tranny leak

#78

Post by bangkok bob » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:20 pm

Hi guys.
Now here's a curly one.

Is it necessary to use the cork washer if you are using the O ring spacer?


I thought I'd open up mine as it was weeping a little and I now run a belt.

Looks like no one has been in there since it left the factory- no glue , no marks and semi hard rubber seal!

Thanks for any comments.
Rob. D.

flatboy1950
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Re: tranny leak

#79

Post by flatboy1950 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:29 pm

The cork washer helps seal the OD of the oil seal. I always fit it & use a little hydraulic fluid sealant on the OD of the oil seal as well.

bangkok bob
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Re: tranny leak

#80

Post by bangkok bob » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:52 pm

OK thanks Flatboy.

bangkok bob
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Re: tranny leak

#81

Post by bangkok bob » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:59 pm

Well got my primary all back together today.
I used spacer with O ring. a James super nut and a new James g/box seal.

I have a Rivera pro clutch and BDL belt. Hopefully this will be the cure to every thing now so I'll post a pick and let you know if it drips.
cheers to all.
Rob. D.

bangkok bob
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Re: tranny leak

#82

Post by bangkok bob » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:20 am

Well no leaks! Have a 400 mile ride coming up next month so that will be the litmus test.
Fitted a new secondhand primary cover that needed a lot of work. Looks OK for 50 years and better than a oriental copy.
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Cotten
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: tranny leak

#83

Post by Cotten » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Rob!

Are you going to run a "dry" chain?

I just looked through my JAMES catalog twice, saw some things I didn't know about, but didn't find anything like a common "supernut".
Are you using a -65 MDG with the original seal removed?

....Cotten

bangkokbob
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Re: tranny leak

#84

Post by bangkokbob » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:57 am

Cotten wrote:Are you going to run a "dry" chain?I just looked through my JAMES catalog twice, saw some things I didn't know about, but didn't find anything like a common "supernut".Are you using a -65 MDG with the original seal removed?
Hi Cotton.
Sorry for slow reply (server problems) Using BDL narrow belt.

James #JGI-35211-36-DL (suit 36-64) comes with 2 pushrod rubber seals. I used 1.
I also have a Rivera pro-clutch installed.
I also used spacer with O ring fitted ( from Ray Duguay Canada)

Cotten
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Re: tranny leak

#85

Post by Cotten » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:30 pm

Rob!

I finally found it in the catalog, but it is listed for '70 and later fourspeeds.

So you have a late main drive gear, and you removed the end seal to accomodate the supernut seal?

....Cotten

bangkokbob
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Re: tranny leak

#86

Post by bangkokbob » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:24 am

Cotton,
Mines listed on the packet as 1970 and up but inside with the fitting instructions has 36-64, 65-69 and then 70-78, confusing!

I'm not running a late model 4 speed shaft and had no problems with fitment and have not leaked 1 drop from tranny since installation.

Regards.
Rob.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: tranny leak

#87

Post by Cotten » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:55 am

Rob!

It would be interesting to know what the instructions say for the different vintages.

Are you running your original main drive gear?
Or your original clutch hub?

....Cotten

bangkokbob
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Re: tranny leak

#88

Post by bangkokbob » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:10 am

Coon,
The Rivera clutch comes complete with it's own clutch hub.

Everything else is original except o ring spacer and belt pulleys.
Regards.
Rob. D.

ps. Excuse greasy copy but I like to get my hands dirty.
supernut img.jpg
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Cotten
Posts: 6911
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: tranny leak

#89

Post by Cotten » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:20 pm

Rob!

If JAMES has not made any seal dimension changes from the traditional "supernuts" of the last two decades,
SuPRNUT1.jpg
then there would be an interference with your original 1963 main drive gear.

The thickness of the supernut is the reason for why it cannot be used with pre-'65 clutchhubs (and '65-'69 primaries).
Note how the lip of the seal extends inwards, smashing the 12022 seal in a '79(?) and later MDG.
SUPRNUT2.jpg
Traditionally, catalog supernuts required a late MDG, with the seal removed.
The whole notion of the supernut was a quick bandaid for a leaky MDG seal.

Your original MDG had no seal, as shown on the left.
MDGSEALS.jpg
There is no counterbore for the supernut lip.
In the middle is a '65 to '77(?) counterbore with the 12013 seal removed.

If your JAMES has such an inward protruding lip, and your MDG is the original, I would predict a short life for the seal.
Please put a caliper upon your spare seals, and see if James corrected this issue with a seal of less than the original supernut thickness of ~.230"

.....Cotten
PS: I assume this 'BDL narrow belt' is the primary?
Are you running a 'dry chain' on the rear?
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bangkokbob
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Re: tranny leak

#90

Post by bangkokbob » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:39 am

Hi Cotton.
Sorry for slow reply due to server problems etc.
The seal I have spare JGI-12014 is 5/16" outside depth and the inner seal depth is 1/8" under this.
I did a 300 mile trip last week and G/box level remains same.
I have a 500 miler this week end so this will test it especially with the hot weather of late.
Rear chain is sprayed with lube as required
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Rob. D.

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