Transmission oil leaking question

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gosilver
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Transmission oil leaking question

#1

Post by gosilver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:59 am

Hallo everyone,
i've tried to search in the dedicated area, but a bit for my limitated Knowledge and a bit for my not easy English comprension I'm here to see transmission oil leaking.
The facts:
- bike is a FL 1949 74 C.I.
- days ago i refill my transmission oil (I run whit a W70-90 tranny oil). For sure I' ve overfilled it; next day I found a "lake" under the bike. From that day (never before) I continue to find oil under my bike. The oil come out from a nut of the primary cover (see the picture please)
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Last saturday I get down the primary cover and I found oil in the inside. I clean very well. Obiouvsly the gasket was very wet. I put up the cover and for a day no oil in the ground. But now i' m in the same situation.
I'm sure that if I get down now the cover I find oil inside.
Into the primary there are not signs of leakment...but there is oil...
These are the pictures of my transmission that is fresh (two years) rebuilted.
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What do you think about this leakment? Is there a seal broken? is the main shaft? Why the oil is in the primary shell?
In another (not clear) picture, i' ve seen that oil tears from the main pinion (to chain>to tire)too, but I don't find oil in that direction...only a tear of oil that leak on the back drum rod...but no oil in the ground.
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free image upload[/url]

Please :D use your simplest language!!! Many many thanks!
Last edited by gosilver on Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



gosilver
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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#2

Post by gosilver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:19 am

I've forgot to say that the oil leak only with cold engine with the bike on jiffy stand, and after hours. When I run with the bike...no leakment!

58flh
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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#3

Post by 58flh » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:28 pm

Looks like you need a seal on the mainshaft!/Thats where it would be falling when on the kick-stand.---TRY & checkout -(saddlebagray mainshaft nut!--Alot of guys have been using them & no leaks!--He is a member here &He ships from CANADA.-(I believe the price is $50 + postage.Shoot him a Private Message & let him explain it to you,I he makes them & can answer any questions you may have.Also Dont tighten the bottom studs on the trans!--There dry!/Keep them that way.---Respectfully---Richie

gosilver
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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#4

Post by gosilver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:40 pm

58flh wrote:Looks like you need a seal on the mainshaft!/Thats where it would be falling when on the kick-stand.---TRY & checkout -(saddlebagray mainshaft nut!--Alot of guys have been using them & no leaks!--He is a member here &He ships from CANADA.-(I believe the price is $50 + postage.Shoot him a Private Message & let him explain it to you,I he makes them & can answer any questions you may have.Also Dont tighten the bottom studs on the trans!--There dry!/Keep them that way.---Respectfully---Richie
Thank you Richie!
I'll try to have a link with saddlebagray. You think a light oil (instead of the W70-90) could be better in transmission? Or the oil will continue to leak in same way?

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#5

Post by 58flh » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:10 pm

Gosilver---You should run the same oil in the trans thats in the motor!--I run ST.60-Valveoline.Going on 26yrs. after my Pan was handed down to me from my Pop.He ran it the same way!/I believe its also in the Manual.The problem with the HEAVY gearoil like you would use in a 4-speed for a car is Its to heavy for the ROLLER-BERINGS to ROLL--Instead they get PUSHED along & that contributes to wear!.--Rubone explained it to me & Ill be dam if it dont make sence!--Just goes to show you /that no matter what you do & for how long/Theres always something to learn.I didnt know about this until I joined this site 6yrs. ago.---Respectfully Richie

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#6

Post by gosilver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:27 pm

58flh wrote:Gosilver---You should run the same oil in the trans thats in the motor!--I run ST.60-Valveoline.Going on 26yrs. after my Pan was handed down to me from my Pop.He ran it the same way!/I believe its also in the Manual.The problem with the HEAVY gearoil like you would use in a 4-speed for a car is Its to heavy for the ROLLER-BERINGS to ROLL--Instead they get PUSHED along & that contributes to wear!.--Rubone explained it to me & Ill be dam if it dont make sence!--Just goes to show you /that no matter what you do & for how long/Theres always something to learn.I didnt know about this until I joined this site 6yrs. ago.---Respectfully Richie
Many thanks. I had send a PM to saddlebagrail.
I'll try to put Lucas SAE 50 (the one I use for motor) in the tranny.
My only question is if a "light" oil could make easyer leakment in a transmission that (for now) is just leaking with an heavyer oil.

(ever sorry for my English).

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#7

Post by 58flh » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:51 pm

gosilver----Yes the lucas-50 will run out faster then the heavyweights!/But when it stops dripping -(have a look in your trans fill hole/If you stand the bike up straight & can see oil in the bottom of hole/You probably can touch it with your pinky finger.Thats enuff for service use!.When filling the trans I believe the amount of oil is 24oz.s--or a pint & a half.If you have to make short runs like to & from work & its like 50-mile roundtrip,you can run her a few ozs. short.When your parts come in Then you can change it on the weekend so you do not have to take any days off!.---Respectfully---Richie

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#8

Post by docmel » Fri May 01, 2015 3:08 pm

I didnt read the whole post, so sorry if I repeat: But i have found that while most folks will change out all the appropriate seals, use super nuts etc, and still have leaks, they have over looked one thing. If the main shaft is worn, which is common with older trannies, you can change all the seals in the world and due a complete rebuild, but it will still leak if the main shaft is worn. The main shaft is the one thing that many when rebuilding dont take the the time to mic out or replace when its worn

Some will try to move the main shaft on an assembled tranny and think that no wiggle means the shaft is good to go. Thats not the case here. If its not within specs, it will leak right at the main seal

Also, my exp had been that when you have a 4 speed leak, it really doesn't matter what manufacture type oil, or weight you are using. It will still leak. Even when 90wt gets hot, it gets thinner and will leak if there is place to seep by.

Since you have your tranny apart (?) grab that main shaft and mic out the area where the shaft goes thru the main seal area. I forgot the spec, but memory says right at 1.00 inch. double check the correct spec yourself. Ill bet your main shaft is worn right at the suspect area

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#9

Post by Scrap » Sat May 02, 2015 5:12 am

I have been sorting out various problems on my 57 FL that was put back in service last year after sitting for over 30 years. The transmission leaked all it's oil after the first 50 miles. I replaced the main seal with a James Gasket double lip seal. Sitting on the jiffy stand it all leaked out. I may have damaged the seal on installation so I made driver out of aluminum and used one of Saddlebag Ray's O Ring spacers, and a new James Gasket seal. I did not use the cork thinking I might get a purchase on a different section of the shaft. Torqued the sprocket nut, filled the transmission with mineral spirits. No initial problem, set it on the jiffy stand, next morning, it was almost empty. Nothing came out of the mainshaft bore If the MDG shaft is worn, I would like to know, and please don't shake your head, if anyone has ever used a Speedi Sleeve on the MDG? I have had great success making permanent repairs on industrial equipment using Speedi Sleeves. End play is over spec, .019 but just sitting on the jiffy stand would this have any effect?
Thanks,
Sam

58flh
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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#10

Post by 58flh » Sat May 02, 2015 12:18 pm

SCRAP---You would think not & Im curious ,How did it work for you??/--I am running a 1944-4 speed & theres a ton of milage on it!--I dont seep oil when its on the kickstand or mounting bolts.-I rebuilt the tranny over 12yrs. now.I started to get the well known drip by the seal like 4yrs. back.Over winter I pulled it drained it & checked everything & proceeded to assemble the trans as usual.I didnt use a supernut/or Rays nut them.I used exactly what the manual calls for.Except for the goober between the shaft-runs.I tried something different /its a sealer made by DOW-Its called Dows-795-structual sealent.To apply this you have to virtualy have no oil-film or it will dry & fly out!.It is used in the Glazing industry for structual sealent & can stretch 3-inches in any direction!--Also on fine smooth grinded parts /besides repeated cleaning with alcohol -Theres a Primer that must be used on VERY SMOOTH surfaces.So far I havent lost a drop!--Its very hi-end stuff & olny another Glazier or Lucabond panel hanger would know about it!--It is sold by 48-10oz. tubes to fit a regular caulk-gun.& is very pricy-$500 for 48 tubes!.I didnt buy it ofcourse as I use it when it comes to damming & structural-Glass glazing.So I pretty much take what I need.It is not said to be used for engine or tranny/but I figured it can take 400-degrees & with the correct prep work ,I gave it a shot & it worked for me.Talking about clearences on the MDS.-I agree if its out of spec.-I wouldnt use it, olny if I had a spare OEM one.-(the Andrews are nice also as I rebuilt a few using Andrews products & they perform EXCELLENT.)-I think Ray should explain How his homegrown seal works.As that would be best.But anybody thats using one should speak-up.I know of 1-post that I read /the poor guy did everything to this tranny & couldnt get it to stop dripping from the seal!--I think that there are 2 things at work here/Never use an airgun to tighten the gear on!(off is fine)-but on is not.Anyway this seal that ray machines did stop that tranny from dripping!--He holds a full 24ozs.& no drip.---Respectfully---Richie

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#11

Post by Mark44 » Sat May 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Richie, I think that Saddlebagray's fix for the leaking transmission shaft seal you're talking about is here: http://www.caimag.com/wordpress/categor ... g/page/13/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. In a nutshell, what Ray does is remove the bushing from the MDG, and put in a new bushing (that he makes) that is shorter. This extra room lets him put in two seals inside the MDG.

You mentioned something about a mainshaft nut that Ray sells for $50. Are you talking about something different from what he describes in the article in this link above?

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Re: Transmission oil leaking question

#12

Post by 58flh » Sun May 03, 2015 12:31 pm

Mark---Yes thats the part I was talking about.Thanks for the link,It was good to check it out again & re-read it.It makes sense why it works.As I mentioned I read of a few guys running them & all POSITIVE Results!---Respectfully---Richie

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