low 6volt charge

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Bigincher
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Re: low 6volt charge

#16

Post by Bigincher » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:00 pm

I used to have the problem of armature slinging the solder out off the armature/commutator, this was a 32E three-brush.
I fought it for years, always suspecting the cutout relay. However, the third brush holder is two or three pieces, riveted together with fish paper between the pieces as insulation. When the rivets get loose, it allows movement, and therefore unwanted contact and short to ground.
The armature would sling it's solder a couple times a year, and when it did, it put the motor under a heck of a load, almost like twine caught up in the rear wheel or something.
So the first place I would check is the brush holders, and the rivets that hold them together. Yes, I know your generator is a two-brush model, I'm just describing the symptoms I experienced and the cause of the symptoms. Something else to look at. And possibly worn and/or chafed wires inside the generator.



bangkokbob
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Re: low 6volt charge

#17

Post by bangkokbob » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:39 am

Hi Frankestein.
Solder was thrown and electrical smell so took it to get seen to.
Repaired last friday and that's where I'm at now.

Big incher that's where I 'll be looking next.
It is something eratic as today I bench tested and still low output but all of a sudden I felt a load
and voltage kicked up over 6.8 volts but it did not last.

Regards, B.B.

Frankenstein
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Re: low 6volt charge

#18

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:35 am

I infer from your last comment that you have a jig to spin the genny and check output off the bike? If so, for sure the comment about momentarily getting good volts from the generator, then the output dropping low again points to an intermittent in the genny. Has the armature been growled since the solder repairs? Have the fields been checked for possible shorts to ground? The problem certainly appears to be within the genny, and you're going to need some additional data to make a diagnosis.
I've lived for years without a growler and done lots of tail chasing because of it. Now I have one and life is good :D
Keep us posted,
DD

bangkokbob
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Re: low 6volt charge

#19

Post by bangkokbob » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:50 am

Hi all.

Further to the genny.
Found a break in the insulation and an intermittant current flow in the positive brush cable,
Made a new cable and installed.
Then found the terminal screw was shorting on the case.
Put all back together but still no good.
So on friday took it to a differant shop that was recommended that a have a growler.
Awaiting result and will post.

Regards B.B.

Frankenstein
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Re: low 6volt charge

#20

Post by Frankenstein » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:09 am

We await with bated breath :D
DD

bangkokbob
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Re: low 6volt charge

#21

Post by bangkokbob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:04 am

Hi all.

Well diagnosis of generator is that the armature needs to be rewound.
Shorting out all over the place according to the repairer.
So will await rewind and assembly.

Regards B.B.

Frankenstein
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Re: low 6volt charge

#22

Post by Frankenstein » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:06 am

Glad to hear you got to the bottom of your problems. Reproductions are out there at a reasonable price. I just picked one up at Jefferson this fall for 30 bucks. It was one from Dixie's old stock, he had several. Appears to be well made. I've done business with the vendor before. Honorable, and also has an ebay presence.
If you've got someone who can do a good rewind at a reasonable price, go for it, Just thought I'd mention there are options.
DD

Panacea
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Re: low 6volt charge

#23

Post by Panacea » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:18 pm


Bigincher
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Re: low 6volt charge

#24

Post by Bigincher » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:36 pm

Panacea wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:18 pm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidso ... .l4275.c10 Here's a good deal...
Ten bucks with $6.50 shipping, it doesn't get any cheaper than that...!

Frankenstein
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Re: low 6volt charge

#25

Post by Frankenstein » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:25 pm

Geez, now I feel gyped! Those are the like the one I bought. They came from Dixie. Only thing, some I've seen weren't dipped. I'd give them a couple of coats of rattlecan clear to act as a sealer/insulator and help to bond the windings together.
Just as a by the way, you could put one of those in a 65A and have a bullet proof 12V genny. Those heavier 6 volt windings are far more resistant to burning out than the thinner windings in a 65A armature. Although BB here has proved they can burn out, given enough abuse :D
DD

nmaineron
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Re: low 6volt charge

#26

Post by nmaineron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:51 pm

Interesting Frankie, so the armature is nothing more than a rotating element with voltage controlled by the regulator.Does 6v generate more heat?

We had a similar issue in the paper mill that I worked at. We had a 40 cycle system and the 40 cycle motors were much heavier than it's 60 cycle equivalent..

RUBONE
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Re: low 6volt charge

#27

Post by RUBONE » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:16 pm

That armature will also fit a model 58 Generator if the end cap is switched for a needle bearing type.

Frankenstein
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Re: low 6volt charge

#28

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 am

Actually, the 6 volt has heavier gauge windings, and generate less heat.
And yes, the regulator determines output voltage, within certain perimeters. To make the '58 genny design a 12 volt generator, they used thinner wire on the armature so they could get more windings on the armature. More windings cutting through the magnetic field setup by the field coils, means higher voltage for the same rpm's. The downside, smaller gauge windings mean more heat given off when passing the same current. The end result is the 65a is much less tolerant of overcurrent operation.
Your 40 cycle motors are a little different matter. There different rules apply when creating or using an alternating current to drive a motor. Short story is, lower cycles per second, more iron needed in the magnetic structures, such as stators or rotors. At the extreme, military aircraft and perhaps civilian too, not sure, used 400cycle ac current to cut down on the weight of the generators and motors. The simplified spin is the higher the frequency current you generate, the less time the electro magnetic parts of the motors have to charge up and go into saturation, so they need less iron to construct those magnetic parts.
Saturation being when an electro magnet has been fed enough current to make it as strong a magnet as it can be. Any more current is wasted as heat and other useless byproducts.
That's enough, as AC electrical theory gets really complicated and most of us can live all our lives in blissful ignorance of it :D
DD

nmaineron
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Re: low 6volt charge

#29

Post by nmaineron » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:23 pm

AC electrical theory gets really complicated and most of us can live all our lives in blissful ignorance of it :D

Amen to that!!

john HD
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Re: low 6volt charge

#30

Post by john HD » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:16 pm

nmaineron wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:23 pm
AC electrical theory gets really complicated and most of us can live all our lives in blissful ignorance of it :D

Amen to that!!
All hail the square root of three. :D

john

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