Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul.

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melchorz
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#16

Post by melchorz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:38 am

Rear jug:
2C07EC11-9082-4698-9CB6-577660DC8FC0.jpeg
2C07EC11-9082-4698-9CB6-577660DC8FC0.jpeg (195.24 KiB) Viewed 279 times



melchorz
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#17

Post by melchorz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:41 am

Front jug:
77864469-B3EA-4698-8E10-8FF7DCB55B69.jpeg
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melchorz
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#18

Post by melchorz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:52 am

These photos were when I first removed the heads.
Ring gaps were worn to .090.
Blue fiber gaskets were stained.
At the time I thought changing the rings and head gasket would fix it.
Like I said before, when I put it back together the plugs still oil-fouled.
Took it apart again and the head gasket was wet.

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#19

Post by melchorz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Currently it is all back together.
I'm getting good at tear down whether I like it or not. Got it down to twelve hours over the weekend. Seat, tanks, carb, manifold, heads, jugs...whew!!
Here we go again!

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#20

Post by melchorz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:25 pm

Hope I'm not getting too long winded but this time I'm going to swap out the blue fiber James' gaskets for some blue metal gaskets stamped: HD16770-48. The eBay guy said they were NOS OEM. They have a silver metal core covered with some thin fiber stuff with blue coating with total thickness of .049.

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#21

Post by PanPal » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:19 pm

I don't think you should see the imprint of the insert for the head bolts on the gasket. Your insert threads may be pulled or worst case a loose insert in the casting and this may be keeping the head from seating flat across the entire head surface. Ive had these pulled threads on inserts not allow me to pull the head gasket tight with the thick gaskets. It is time consuming, but I counter sink the inserts so you have about a 1/16 chamfer or a little more, Use a file loaded with chalk to take down the high spots of the inserts. Let the file do the work and clean the chips from the file often and re chalk it so the chips don't clog the file teeth and gouge the aluminum surface. Then flatten the head on a 1/4" piece if glass or mirror with emery cloth, keeping it saturated with WD-40 and work the head in a figure 8 Pattern with the exhaust port hanging over the edge of the glass. They are usually heat warped near the exhaust ports and this takes the longest to sand out to completely flat. Bottom tap every head bolt hole and clean any dirt or build up out of the bottom of each head bolt hole. Work the head bolt in and out of the head to make sure it doesn't tighten up as you are trying to torque it and check that each bolt goes in far enough to tighten it to the cylinder. It looks like you have clearance on the fire ring to head if that carbon build up is on top of the fire ring, but important as said to check this before assembly. light oil on all head bolt threads and a non used side of the washer towards the head of your head bolts when tightening it up, After you align the heads to fit the manifold the best it can. Torque all head bolts with a obstruction wrench and a torque wrench at 90 degrees to the box ends on the obstruction wrench. Might take more than the weekend if you do all this though.

Are you running outside oiler heads?

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#22

Post by melchorz » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am

Thanks Panpal.
Yep, I got the 1963 outside oiler heads.
Yes there was carbon on top of the barrel ring. That's a hopeful sign. I payed it no mind when I did the first tear down. Good observation on your part. I saw the star shaped imprint on the gaskets and dressed the couple of protruding inserts with a file and stone. I did not chase the threads nor did I do a pre-assembly check of the head bolts. Good call. I did try to do a novice flatness check with a straight edge and saw nothing but I'm going to try the glass / emery cloth / WD-40 deal you mentioned. This weekend is Fathers Day so Wifeepoo will let me stay in the basement with my "loud girlfriend" for awhile.

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#23

Post by Excalibur » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:40 am

Re .090" ring gap, someone may have previously fitted rings too small for bore size.

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#24

Post by Larry » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:18 pm

I suggest you get a few large (12X18) sanding sheets from a store that rents floor sanders. Get one 36 grit and one 60 grit, and one 80 grit (if they have it), you want to remove metal, not polish it. Glue or tape the 36 to something that doesn't move, like a band saw table. I've found that my Handy Lift table is flat enough to do the job. You'll find it difficult to sand in any direction but a straight line, due to interference with the exhaust nipple. Hold the head firmly, sand in one direction applying pressure. Two or three strokes will show the low spot at the exhaust, and the high spots at the inserts. Sand until the surface is even. Finish with 60 or 80. It won't leak with the teflon gaskets. Countersink the inserts if you think necessary. Both heads should take about an hour.


Is there a reason you're not using the three piece oil control ring?

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#25

Post by melchorz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:29 am

Larry wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:18 pm
Is there a reason you're not using the three piece oil control ring?
The two top rings on the installed TRW 1128 (.010 over) pistons are 3/32" (as opposed to the standard 1/16"). The only 3/32" Hastings rings I could source had the one piece oil ring like the one I replaced. Since I ain't no expert I went with what I started with.
Thanks for the detailed sanding procedure.

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#26

Post by melchorz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:42 am

Oops! I meant TRW 11228 pistons. :oops:

Well...here we go again with yet another tear down:
951105CA-5956-42AF-A4E6-02B261D76AD3.jpg
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#27

Post by Larry » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:06 pm

Hastings rings can be purchased separately. Their website offers a detailed catalog. Are these ancient FL pistons?

melchorz
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#28

Post by melchorz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:17 pm

Larry wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:06 pm
Are these ancient FL pistons?
Don't know. Never had a Harley before.
Bought the bike as is. Learning about what it's made of as I go along. Lots of stuff installed right, lots of stuff still wrong. I'm 63 but wanted a Panhead since I was maybe ten. I trailered this one home two years ago after scraping up cash...yeah, paid too much for it but I had to throw down before...well...you know, croaksville. This ain't no f--king mid life crisis. Had that 20 years ago. Sorry...TMI (too much info) . I'll try to stick to business in my posts. :wink:

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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#29

Post by melchorz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:28 pm

Front piston:
30A31A21-B6CA-490E-B518-72B067256E12.jpg
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Re: Changed rings but plugs still oil-foul

#30

Post by PanPal » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:16 pm

For some reason in the picture, they don't look like cast iron rings. I like the iron rings best personally along with a 3 piece oil ring.

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