Timer lobe mark

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1950Panhead
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Re: Timer lobe mark

#16

Post by 1950Panhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:52 pm

It is a 58 panhead and the stop part retained by the wire bail is in the proper recess to limit the movement of the timer. But that is another question . Which pair of holes does the wire bail go in? I never paid attention which ones they were in when I had the timer apart. I did not pull it from the engine so where it is was as driven back when
Easyist to remove at 45 degrees, half way between forward and right.
The timing mark was just in the window as for the FL. and light just coming on at with the timer at full advanced. So the question is still with the timer at fully advanced is the engine running at full advance or somewhere near?
This is full advance with engine running.
I have owned eight of these, all of them started easy at full retard, they will start at half retard, the risk of kick back increases.



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Re: Timer lobe mark

#17

Post by awander » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:54 pm

Not sure I understand the question.

You should set the timing with the timer fully advanced.

You retard it to some indeterminate spot when starting.

Then you fully advance it again for running.

So when the timer is fully advanced, the timing will be fully advanced.

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#18

Post by RooDog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:41 pm

1950Panhead wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:52 pm
It is a 58 panhead and the stop part retained by the wire bail is in the proper recess to limit the movement of the timer. But that is another question . Which pair of holes does the wire bail go in? I never paid attention which ones they were in when I had the timer apart. I did not pull it from the engine so where it is was as driven back when
The wire bale has nothing to do with limiting the movement of the timer that is acomplished by the adjustable stud working in the notch cut in the timer's base. What the wire bale does do, other than retaining the cap, is hold the semi circular friction spring/ring under the base and must register in that ring's centered notches in order for the ring to sit flush under the base and provide friction to hold the movable base in it's set position. During our lifetime It seems we spend a lot of time trying to choose which hole to put things, sometimes you just have to figure it out on your own.
Now enjoy it....RooDog

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#19

Post by Excalibur » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:03 pm

jerryd wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:43 am
So the question is still with the timer at fully advanced is the engine running at full advance or somewhere near?
Assuming an accurate static timing setting is made,

then...

the engine running will be at that timing, but subject to how accurate or worn the timer is.

Any doubt about your method, put a strobe light on and see how good you were. Typically I static set to begin with and verify with a strobe. Only on rare occasion do I need to tweak the setting. Strobe at idle.
Strobe is handy for seeing how much wear in timer bushes and shaft.
Recently I made an electronic ignition for my Pan. It ran really nicely and strobe timing stability was noticeably better. Sadly the engine was almost impossible to kickstart so I had to abandon the project. Back to points now.

Hope I understood your question and it is answered.

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#20

Post by PanPal » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:44 pm

The semi circlip retainer also helps ground the timer. If not correctly installed can make a difference on how the motor runs.
The timing mark was just in the window as for the FL. and light just coming on at with the timer at full advanced.
The confusing part to me about the timing and may be I do it a different way.

I pull the timer wire off my coil. Attach a light with 2 wire leads, one lead to the timer wire and one lead to the battery positive. Make sure the other side of the points have ground back to the negative battery terminal . The light is ON with the points closed. When my timing mark is in the window where I want it, I adjust the timer so the light goes OFF just as the timer reaches full advanced position and the points open. No? The light stays ON no mater how far the timer is retarded and only goes OFF at full advance. I timed one of my Pans so the light came on full advanced and found I had timed to the wrong side of the lobe.

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#21

Post by RooDog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:15 pm

I pull the timer wire off my coil. Attach a light with 2 wire leads, one lead to the timer wire and one lead to the battery positive. Make sure the other side of the points have ground back to the negative battery terminal . The light is ON with the points closed. When my timing mark is in the window where I want it, I adjust the timer so the light goes OFF just as the timer reaches full advanced position and the points open. No? The light stays ON no mater how far the timer is retarded and only goes OFF at full advance. I timed one of my Pans so the light came on full advanced and found I had timed to the wrong side of the lobe.
[/quote]

In reverse order. The mark in the cam lobe is so this does not happen as it represents the opening side of the lobe.
No need to go to removing wires from the coil just use a grounded test light attached to the + terminal on your points. With the switch ON the light will be OFF when the points are closed, and will come ON when the points begin to open. That is when the plugs fire and the timing is set. RooDog

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#22

Post by jerryd » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:26 pm

Thanks for the replies . About checking with a strobe, Where should the line be in the window at full advance?

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#23

Post by awander » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm

jerryd wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:26 pm
Thanks for the replies . About checking with a strobe, Where should the line be in the window at full advance?
See post #13

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#24

Post by awander » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm

I've never had any luck with a strobe light.

Static timing works fine, though.

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#25

Post by nmaineron » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:56 pm

Same place it was when you did it with the test light. This also a good way to see if your doing it right with the test light.

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Re: Timer lobe mark

#26

Post by RooDog » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:11 pm

awander wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm
I've never had any luck with a strobe light.

Static timing works fine, though.
After several attempts both with and without the plastic eye I said F it and static time all my Harleys even when teching at the local H-D dealership, and have never had any notable problem setting timing 100% mechanically. After all, a Harley Panhead, or Shovelhead, is not a precision machine, it is rude, crude, and antiquated with low compression, and antique carburetion. So why sweat the minutia of trying to precision time the ignition when in all likelyhood that engine probably has a five degree window of satisfactory full, and locked, advanced timing. As long as you stay out of detonation (pinging or spark knock) you are not too far advanced. And probably worse yet, not running retarded which causes overheating, blued pipes, and burnt valves. It's really a simple technology originating in the 1930s, so don't over think it, it ain't rocket science, it's just a Harley. Now kick it to life and go for a ride, that's what I'm gonna do..... RooDog

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