Why did this 58 FL get parked?

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RUBONE
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#91

Post by RUBONE » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:00 am

An August '60 frame would definitely have been used on a late August or September build for a new '61 model. H-D shut down the line and transitioned to the new models in mid summer. The new models were on dealers floors in September. If the bike was indeed PD the department might have been one that reconditioned engines and swapped them in chassis as needed. They didn't care about correct years as long as they interchanged.



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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#92

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:23 pm

PanPal wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:46 pm
Might be 1960 if it has stayed with the frame all these years. Frame is August 60. swing arm has the upside down
2 character code on the outside left leg casting. Grease fitting in the bottom. Thought is was weld near the square boss on the lower left leg casting below the hose strap bolt, but now I'm thinking the sand mold collapsed when pulling the pattern out of the mold. I think I saw you reference this oddity in a swing arm identification thread Eric. Would they be building 61 bikes starting in August? Just wondering because the gas tanks are 61 type.
I’m curious about the upside down 2 on the outside left. Could you post a photo please.

If the grease fitting at the bottom is original then in this instance the swingarm would be a 62 model because 62 was the first model year for a grease fitting and I don't see 63-later reinforcement ribs outside the left clip. However, some grease fittings are not original. Can you post a picture of yours.

Frame may have been used for a 61 model. If it was held back for some reason and used for a 62 model then stamped on the left side of the steering head I’d expect an additional original component identifying number—for example, A123(4).
Eric

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#93

Post by PanPal » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:50 pm

I took a bunch of pictures for you. I cant easily resize them from my phone today. I'll send them to you. Its not a upside down 2 though.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#94

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:39 pm

Thanks for the photos. Inside the left clip is forging number 47614-58 and hallmark A. Apparently this A (A in a jar) indicates AmForge, Chicago, Illinois. Die number is 5, as I thought.

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Outside the left clip I see what you mean about the area immediately below the hose clamp bolt but I don’t know what happened there. As for the run number, I’m not sure what it is. A run number around the mid-70s or into the 80s would be consistent with this type of swingarm so I’m guessing it may be 83 upside down.

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Another post to follow.
Eric

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#95

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:43 pm

Outside the R-H clip is forging number 47606-58. There may be a die number to the right and out of shot but there seems to be a lot of variation with those as though the forgings were not always used in the order in which they were produced. The die number may be anywhere from about 5 through around 13? You may also find a hallmark that looks like the letter Q with WF inside it but I don’t know what company that represents.

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No markings inside the R-H clip and I don’t think I’ve seen markings inside other R-H clips either.

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Forging number under the pivot tube is 47556 58. Hallmark looks like ME and I’ve seen it before but I don’t know what maker it indicates. The grease fitting is close to where I expected to see it but not in exactly the same position. Was it done at the factory? I'm not sure.

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Next picture shows where I would have expected the fitting to be positioned.

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As I mentioned earlier, I think the extra material at the bottom of the left clip appeared about late-59 (model year). Inside that type of clip, die number 3 is the lowest I’ve seen and left clips with number 4 inside seem to have still been in use for swingarms with no grease fitting. Left clips with die number 5 inside have shown up on some swingarms with no fitting and on some with a fitting that appears original. Hard to be sure if your grease fitting is original or not. If it is then your swingarm is a 62 model but if the fitting is not original then I’d say your swingarm is a 61 model.
Eric

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#96

Post by PanPal » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:17 am

Not a lot of quality work time put in on the 58 that last couple weeks, mostly figuring how the finishes on parts should look, but I am a lot closer to being done cleaning up the frame. I’ve started with oil eater and a tooth brush cleaning tight areas and completed cleaning the bottom of the frame. It reminds me of patching tires on my old 10 speed as a kid. Upside down on the handle bars. I removed the swing arm. The cup side of the bearings had marks in them from the rollers. I have new bearings in hand and seals are on the way. My painter buddy moved to Georgia but was in the area last night and stopped by. We went over how I want to touch up the frame a bit but not look like it’s been blasted and repainted shinny everywhere. On the last one I used satin finish black paint and it matched the oxidized paint pretty well. My friend is going to bring me some satin enamel paint for airbrushing. I have a good airbrush I bought for my oldest son, but he never got into it the way I hoped, so it’s mine now. I’m going to do most of the swing arm, the frame above the battery area and some on the front down tubes, and then try to stop before I go too far. I bought white vinegar, lime juice and table salt. I mixed a gallon of vinegar, 8 oz. lime juice and 2/3 a cup of salt in a container. The spokes and nipples have been in there about 4 or 5 days now. I checked it after 24 hours and thought I must have bought the wrong type of vinegar. Looked like I just put them in. Last night my friend said what’s that bubbling and I reached in and pulled out a few spokes. I’ll rinse them and take a picture. They looked pretty good. The other night I started pulling things out from under the stairs for Duo Glides. Last night I picked through and have out only what I may use. Off the top of my head I came out from under the stairs with a couple pairs of chrome domes for the rear shocks, a tool box, handle bars (these on the bike are pulled back more like beach bars), some cables and levers that might work, oil and brake line parts and pieces, spare spokes and nipples, an ignition switch that looks to have the correct contact plate with good tabs, a pair of rocker covers with D rings and correct bolts a new in the package rubber ducky float, NOS rubber straps just like the ones on this big regulator, (bought these on accident years ago) and the later style too big for my liking chain rear guard, rear fork tins, 2 kicker pedals, a mirror and mounting bracket, and a seat post with springs, but it might be aftermarket for a 45. Then I sorted a box for my 50, a box for my 59, one for the shovel, and 2 boxes for the next swap meet, and put all the boxes away. I’m still working on the bolts in the generator without much luck. Last night it dawned on me, why am I taking it apart? I’m going to clean the brushes and insides with electrical cleaner the best I can and test it. Couldn’t find much on the police generators and parts on line so, I’m making a new bracket to replace the broken bracket that holds the fan shroud on. Found my batch of Harley spokes and nipples and added them to the vinegar solution. I should have plenty for both rims now. Another friend said his dad is getting a new oven so when the old one is in his garage I can have it. This should work for cooking the oil off the cases, maybe even for the boiling. Then I will haul it off to another friend with more room for tools like a oven in his garage.
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bigbox
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#97

Post by bigbox » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:52 am

Hey Panpal, enjoying following your thread. It’s incredible what you find when the crud comes off.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#98

Post by PanPal » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:35 am

I pulled the spokes out of the vinegar solution and rinsed them off. Much better, but I'll have to pick out a set and see what needs more work. I think I'm going to tumble assembled spoke and nipple in a jar in the lathe and see how that works. My timer bracket and generator vent shroud cleaned up ok also. I spread out the parts I pulled the other night to see what I can use. The handle bars that came on my 59 are sitting beside the bars on it. Were there many styles of handlebars offered during the Duo Glide years? I ordered My second edition 2 volume books today for my Christmas present. Should be here Monday according to Debbie. May be Bruce has info on Handlebars in there? Still no swing arm seals in the mail, I think they are due tomorrow. The frame is upright now to clean a little more and get ready for some touch up paint. I should see the paint Thursday. Started spraying some electrical cleaner in the generator and cleaning a bit, more to go. Think I'll try and run the wide white wall tire and rim in the picture, its been holding air for at least a year now. And probably the black tire on the rear. I'll only run the double white wall if this black one isn't round.
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RUBONE
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#99

Post by RUBONE » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:19 am

There were two styles of bars, Speedster, or Buckhorn. Either black or chrome, the difference being in amount of pullback and rise. Speedster are flatter, slightly less wide, and less pullback. those black bars look like they were bent back more, a common modification for individual rider preference.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#100

Post by PanPal » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:50 pm

Had a painter friend stop by Friday in a 61 Fleetwood and brought me a little paint. He touched up the front of the front down tubes, the swing arm and the handlebars a bit. Ran out of the little paint he brought, so I need to order more before really being finished with the frame. The generator spider (That's what I was told it's called) is coming along ok. Didn't have much time at the lathe last week. I opened up the star hubs and found one pitted too bad to run. Water had entered and sat and it has one bad spot on the big end. The other start hub looks great inside. I should be able to pick good looking spokes and nipples to build one wheel and I will have to replace the other one. The seals for the swing arm came in today. I can start installing the swing arm now. The Timkin cups have been in the freezer since Friday night. I'll heat the swing arm a bit and hopefully the cups will drop in. I'm trying the get the guts out of the master cylinder but only removed the spring clip and tried to pump grease in the brake line fitting side to remove the insides and it didn't budge. If I get a little more time tonight, I should be able to get it apart and see if it will be serviceable. I also will pull the wheel cylinder apart and see what it looks like inside. Lots of time spent dealing with leaves and Christmas this time of year delaying more progress.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#101

Post by Bigincher » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:18 pm

"Dealing with leaves"...?
Oh, you and me both! My neighbor just upwind has the biggest old sycamore tree you've ever seen. Over 100 years old, just loaded with leaves.
And they all fall on my back lawn.
(sigh)
So every Fall I have to deal with those leaves. Luckily this year we had a big windstorm that brought most of them down all at once; I'd rather deal with them all at once than rake the lawn over and over and over and over and over............ You know the drill.

Nice progress on the bike, thanks for the update, as usual.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#102

Post by PanPal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:58 pm

I did get the master cylinder apart. It was a little corroded at the end between the dust cover and the spool but I think the bore cleaned up pretty well and will seal with a new kit installed. I took the wheel cylinder apart and honed the bore. This looked really good inside and I’m sure it will seal with a new kit. I met an old friend the other day and in talking he said he thought he had a star hub wheel in his basement and it was mine if he did. He found it and dropped it off a couple days ago. It was pretty black looking in the picture and I expected it to be rusted up pretty bad. I took it to work and cleaned it in the parts washer because it was so greasy just trying to handle it. It is a chrome hub, spokes, and rim. I’ll run it if the hub is ok after I open it up and check the bearing surfaces. I emptied a jar of peanuts the other day and got an idea. My worst spokes fit in the jar with the lid on, so I threw all the nipples in and filled the jar ¾ of the way full with the white vinegar solution and chucked up the lid and jar in my lathe. I ran it forward and reverse for a half hour each, then emptied the solution out and poured WD 40 in and tumbled 5 or so minutes each direction. I liked what it did to the nipples and spokes, but the spokes were pretty pitted. I put the better spokes in and threw several handfuls of BB’s in and tumbled these. Now I have a decent set of spokes and nipples to build one wheel. Last night I picked out 42 spokes and screwed the best of the nipples on and hung them up over the pellet stove to get them warm and sprayed them with some silver paint. The rim for this wheel is the black one pictured beside the one I just cleaned up. It is a chrome rim someone (maybe me) painted black. There is chrome showing in several spots so I wanted to remove the paint and see how bad the rim looks striped. Acetone and lacquer thinner didn’t seem to break through the paint. Any thoughts on what I should try to get the paint off? I installed the new cups and cones and put the seals and spacers on the swing arm. Installed the swing arm and over tightened and backed off the swing arm bolt a couple times to make sure the bearing were seated. The next day when all the metal was the same temperature I tightened the bolt so the swing arm had 2 lbs of pull bearing load. Yesterday I ordered a quart of black paint to get the frame touched up a little more and have some paint for the brake drums and rear brake backing plate. Picked out a pair of shock covers and have the clamps for these. The generator spider lathe work is done, I just need to cut the spider out with the band saw and drill all the holes and tap for the shroud bolts. I’ll post a picture of both when they are done.
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Bigincher
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#103

Post by Bigincher » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:22 pm

I like your approach to this whole project, and I like how clever you are. I may adopt your tumbling method for my own use!
I will have my spokes re-plated in cadmium, but I have several sets to do, so should realize an economy of volume, since they charge the same for 40 spokes or 400.
"Jasco" is about the best paint stripper I've used; it's a 'gel' that you brush on then wait for the paint to bubble up. When the paint has lifted, scrape with a plastic putty knife. Sometimes 'help' it with ScotchBrite pad if need be. Rinse with water per instructions. It should not effect the chrome underneath, but it's Hell on paint. And your skin, if it splashed on you and you don't rinse it off.
Eastwood makes a 'faux cadmium' paint in a foo-foo can that's not too bad for 'faux'. I've used it on a few small items and it looks good.
When you spoke up the wheel, read the section in the Service Manual; there's a right way and a wrong way, for the direction of the spokes.
I paid an "expert" to do my wheels, and he got them backwards. (I'll never understand how an 80-yr old man who's done it all his life could make such a mistake... he either had his son do it, or he should quit because he's 80 yrs old.)
So from now on, I'll do my own, thank-you-very-much.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#104

Post by mik666 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:50 pm

I'm almost afraid to continue to read this thread - great job (!) PanPAl and excellent posts!

but it really has me itching to get another restoration project - and if i show up with another i know the girlfriend will be hitting the eject button!

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#105

Post by PanPal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:24 pm

The paint I bought was from Eastwood Under hood semi gloss. And yea, I helped a buddy try to cad plate spokes one day with a kit. No fun and not the greatest results doing it ourselves anyway. I'll try the stripper recommended. On the wheels, I got lucky with the first one last time, then read the manual and did see specs for I believe where the grease fitting is in relation to the tube stem hole and which end of the hub points which way. I will definitely have the service manual open when I put this together. mik666, I was told not to bring another bike home that wasn't a 2 up comfy seat bike 2 bikes ago. When I told her about this one she said you need to go get it.
Well after I wrote the post, I drilled and cut the generator spider I made. Just needs the taped holes done, file the edges and chamfer the holes.
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