Why did this 58 FL get parked?

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PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#46

Post by PanPal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:17 pm

I hope it was water and didn't spin the bearings in the case. Last night I cleaned up the floor around the bike (lots of Kroil) and took it off the lift and propped it upright with a 6x6. Did this so I could pull hard on a wrench without pulling the bike off the lift trying to get the engine sprocket nut off. Pulled out the steel bar I've used for years to hold the sprockets from turning when removing compensator sprockets. Got out my farm equipment socket set and a 30" piece of tubing for a cheater bar. I had the wrench handle vertical so I could lean on the front end and pull towards me without compressing forks pushing downward. Gave it a pull and bent the rod holding the sprockets from turning and the flywheel turned a bit. The old jam rod I used was 9 1/2" long. After some searching through bins in my shop I found a bar about 9 7/8" long, a little thicker and harder and it fit in there. gave it another go and the nut came off without much of a problem. Got out the clutch hub tools I made a long time ago. Took apart the clutch (no half plate Dammit) very oily clutch plates. bent the tab holding the nut in place and removed the left hand threaded nut holding the hub on the taper. One pop on my puller set up with a hammer and the hub was free from the taper. Didn't take any real prying to get the front sprocket off either. Then removed the inner primary. Also took off the front crash bar just to get it out of the way.
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Bigincher
Posts: 2776
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1952 FL
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#47

Post by Bigincher » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:47 am

It really doesn't look so bad inside the primary chaincase. I'm optimistic.
You know you can remove the pressure plate without taking all the springs apart, right? Maybe on a disassembly like this it doesn't matter, but you can sure save yourself some grief when reassembling by making up the spring plate/pressure plate in a press first.

Doc37W
Posts: 83
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Bikes: '37 W,'41 ULH,'59 FLH Handshift,'69 Fl Handshift w/sidecar,

Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#48

Post by Doc37W » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:37 am

Get yourself a thick fender washer with a 3/8" hole and big enough to to straddle the hole in the spring collar plate. Take off the adjuster nut & back out the adjusting screw in the pressure plate all the way out. Assemble the springs over all the holes in the pressure plate, put the spring collar on them, then the fender washer on the adjuster screw, and finally, the nut back on the screw. Tighten the nut & screw down to hold everything together. Now, when you put the assembly back on the clutch hub studs,(after you have the clutch plates in the basket), you tighten the nut down 'till you can put the locking nuts on the 3 studs. Take the adjusting nut off, remove the fender washer, re-install the nut, & adjust clutch according to the manual. (Plus, you can leave the assembly together untill you're ready to re-assemble the clutch & not have to go looking for all the springs and plates!) Keep the fender washer in your tool bag & another one in your toolbox. (You will use them!!) Doc

kevsett
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#49

Post by kevsett » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:18 pm

Yes. Remarkable thread with incredible updates and pics of equally incredible work.........I have a 2000 Buick and a 2000 Mercury that are both very close to 180,000 miles and in much better overall shape than your bike........but if I had to put the kind of time, money, and skill into them I'd be totally lost. You're doing a great job and service to all of us by posting updates.

PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#50

Post by PanPal » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:19 pm

Nice tip on the pressure plate and springs. I usually just hold them together and push them on as a unit until I get all the nuts started. Takes a couple tries sometimes. I was thinking maybe there was gas in the tank and seeing as how the gas shutoff was open, it filled the cylinders with gas and washed all the oil off the bores and pistons and drained into the flywheel assembly and evaporated. Then condensation caused the rust. Just a guess. I unhooked my oil lines and about a teaspoon full of oil dripped out. I suppose because the bike is more upright on the 6x6 than where it rested on the side stand for so long. The motor is now out. It has been to work along with other tidbits and has been washed in the parts washer. When I lifted the motor out of the box and moved it to the parts washer, I left a trail that spilled out of the motor, White and oil. So there was water in there somehow. I cleaned a lot of gunk off the motor. The cases were painted with silver paint at some point. The belly number match and there is a 7 on the top of the rear motor mount number side case. The gear side case has thick silver paint on it so this 7 is not legible at this time. Do the numbers look good? Now it's time to get the case split. I will take off the tappet blocks and the oil pump before I split the case. When removing the oil pump, the plan is to remove the gear inside the case. use a stone to clean sharp edges on the keyed part of the shaft to keep from gouging the bushing when the pump shaft is pulled through. I have split roller motor cases, but never a Timken bearing case before. I started reading the procedure in the manual last night. Any tips on the best way to split the case?
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Doc37W
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#51

Post by Doc37W » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:43 pm

After you take out all the case bolts, the right side should come away from the left easily, with the flywheels remaining in the left case (might have to tap on the front motor mount lightly sideways to break the case seal). Then pull the right side straight off. Make sure you support the left case when you put the flywheel/case in the press and allow at least 2" for the flywheels to be pushed down and out of the bearing assembly. I always put a hand up the middle of the cross bars & under the flywheel assembly on the pinion shaft to prevent them from just falling down and slamming against the press table. From there, it's the same as a roller motor to tear apart the flywheels. Will be interesting to see how much rust & debris is in the motor/flywheels/bearings. Doc

PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#52

Post by PanPal » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:53 pm

Thanks Doc! I need to get the pinion gear off first and I don't have the special puller they show in the manual.

RUBONE
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#53

Post by RUBONE » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:53 am

The cases can be separated with the pinion gear in place. It easily passes through the right case bearing race. And it is easy to get off once the case is removed with conventional pullers. If you insist on using the factory pullers I have one you can borrow.
Robbie

nmaineron
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#54

Post by nmaineron » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:59 pm

I really hope that is not a crack going through your belly number. You also have a scratch there but look real hard at the 4...

PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#55

Post by PanPal » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:27 pm

Yes there is a crack that I'm going to have checked out on Thursday. Also a crack at the case stud and from the generator mount area back a couple inches.

Speeding Big Twin
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#56

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:05 pm

I can’t see anything wrong with the number boss and all the characters appear normal factory types for a 58 Pan. For example, notice the lower horizontal stroke of the F is not much shorter than the upper stroke. The 3 is flat-topped with a short vertical serif at top left and a medium-length diagonal. Straight-back 9 and 6 as expected.

If you have 7s on top of the cases I would expect them to be sans serif.

Most 58 Pans have BNs beginning with code number 1 so it’s unusual to see them start with code 3 which for 1958 was mostly used for Flatheads. However, I’ve seen code 3 on a couple of other 58 Pan cases and I can’t find anything wrong with the other characters in the examples I have. I’ve got a photo of a lone 58 Pan R-H case with code 3 and I have pictures of a matching pair with the same thing. The matching pair are for a 58FLH. I have a clear photo of its serial number too and I can’t see anything wrong with it.

The lone R-H case has 358-39++ and the matching pair have 358-38++. These aren’t far from yours (358-4025). Examples I have with code 1 range from 158-10++ thru 158-37++ and from 158-42++ thru 158-80++. Obviously that leaves my examples with 358, and your 358, in the middle. But I don’t know yet why they used code 3 instead of code 1.

Anyway, I can’t see any sign that your BNs were altered. And although it’s unusual for them to begin with 3, even that character appears to be a Harley style and it looks like the round-top 3 used as the code number for 1958 Flathead BNs, as shown below:

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All the other characters in your BNs are also consistent with factory stamping for 1958.

BTW, you may run across some people who say there is a problem because your BN is higher than your serial number. But that is wrong. Sometimes the BN is higher, sometimes it is lower, and on rare occasions the BN can match the serial number.
Eric

NB: if anyone is wondering about the examples I mentioned with 158-80++, the reason they are so high is that although the BNs are 1958, the cases were used for 59 models and they have 1959 serial numbers.

PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#57

Post by PanPal » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:50 pm

Thanks for all the information and input as this project moves along. Tomorrow I get more eyes looking at the cases. Some of what I thought were cracks appear to be casting marks from the sand mold and the rough grind they did on the corners. The oil pump came off as expected. The tappet blocks came out without any surprises. The cases split fairly easily with a hard rubber hammer after the case bolts were removed. Pretty cruddy inside when I split the cases. The Timken side came out easily on the press. The cases were cleaned in the parts washer today. The flywheel is going to need a good wire wheel treatment. After some flushing, all the bearings are turning now. Should get some good work done tomorrow up at my buddies house.
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Andygears
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#58

Post by Andygears » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:25 am

Great pictures, thanks! Congrats on not finding more wrong than the extreme corrosion. Good job not losing patience.

Andygears

nmaineron
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#59

Post by nmaineron » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:40 pm

They look great! That must make you feel better. :D Were the rods frozen?

Bigincher
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#60

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:14 pm

Wow, it's remarkable!
The thing that strikes me the most is the high water mark, with the grunge buildup above it. It's clear that water sat in those cases for a long time, protecting the orange Glyptol. Above the waterline, where it was exposed to the atmosphere and oil residue, a heavy layer of grunge developed. Interestingly, most of the Glyptol remained intact after cleaning. (You'll have to decide what to do with it.)
I'm glad to hear that what appeared to be cracks aren't cracks; at first I thought that if the cases were full of water, then froze, the expanding ice could've cracked the cases. But this could happen only in a sealed vessel with no room for the ice to expand. I don't think that happened here.
I didn't notice where the bike is, did it spend winters in a freezing environment?

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