Let's talk Dollar Amounts

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Detroitblue
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Let's talk Dollar Amounts

#1

Post by Detroitblue » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:21 pm

I am interested in putting some price tags on these prized possessions. So in order to do so I would like to ask several questions to get a wide perspective.

1. What is the most desired year for the Panhead? Would it be the oldest? or would it be the later models after the rear shocks were installed in "58".

2. What is the highest price that a Panhead has been known to sell for? And what is the lowest price for a fully restored and ready to ride Pan.

3. What is the criteria that a bike must meet to demand top dollar. Would it be totally chromed out? or would it be totally all original? or would it be totally customed?

4. What is the average cost of a total restoration, assuming you had a pan and just wanted to invest in getting it restored.

5. finally what is the average price of most of the pans you see that feature a little of the old and little repop and a little modern day advancements.



Jack_Hester
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#2

Post by Jack_Hester » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:35 am

Detroitblue -

I won't answer them all. Just comment on some.

1 - I always think that the 1rst and last have the most collectable value. That being said, I would say that this is just what a first-time collector would look for. Myself, I wouldn't take anything for my 59 Duo-Glide. Even thought the sprung saddle on the rigids made for a good ride, there's nothing like the swingarm frame to make a really good ride. Just my opinion on that.

3 - Original, with original paint. And, a good paper trail, to track it's history.

4 - Very difficult question. I put a 57 Pan together for a good friend of mine. He bought it as a junk chopper, for $400.00. Approx. $8K later, with lots of repop, and some OEM, it was complete. He wanted repop, just to get it together. I would say plan for $10K in restoration costs. And, feel real good when it doesn't cost that much. Especially, if you don't mind doing a lot of the work, yourself.

5 - I've seen some not entirely stock Pans go for $8K to $12K. Also, a number of customs go for the same and more.

That should open things up for comments from others. And, maybe give you some starting point.

Jack

VT

#3

Post by VT » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:55 pm

My opinion is all based on 74 c.i. motors. Any knuckle 1941- 1947, since that was the first OHV and the last of the OHV iron head. Any year Pan '49 (or '48 springer-Pan) to '59, because they had an 8" headlight. But '55 for the first Timken crankcase or '56 for the splined sprocket shaft, or '58 for the perfected Pan motor with the larger diameter and increased bearing surface pinion shaft. And then '59 for the tank badges and the last year of the big headlight. 12K for a stock looking Pan is a give-away. If you find such a machine....purchase it. My re-popped Knuckle or Pan will sell for 50-75K. And it won't sell until the building public wakes up and finds that there are no more antique OHV's for sale. The re-popped replicas cost at least 15K in boxes off the shelf. So far no one has counted up all the money in free-labor to put these puzzles together. Re-pops cost three times as much as a new Harley. New Harleys are dirt cheap. Re-pop is a rough journey. We lose alot of people on the trail for all kinds of reasons. Parts don't fit. Time runs out. Frames become furniture in homes. Nobody has been to able to blaze a trail that others can follow. You find alot of pilgrims with the axle trees on their wagons buried up to the hubs in mud. Many have chosen to make a home on the exact spot where their wagons busted. It ain't purty. You get a chance sod-buster, buy an antique complete. Don't build yer own. The buzzards will pick every piece of meat from your bones.

Detroitblue
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I been out there and got picked clean

#4

Post by Detroitblue » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:23 pm

I will tell my story one day but for now let me say that I saw a totally original "58" go on ebay for about "12k and I was sick about it. I am in for almost 19k and I ain't even finished yet. The going rate seems to be somewhere between 13k and 20k with the best of the best asking 25k.

However you make an excellent point about the free man hours that go un-calculated. I don't have any of those on my project yet. I paid for it all.

Now when you say 75k well that is what I like to hear. I think they should be worth that much but unfortunately the new Bike prices drive the market. How many people are going to put up with old technology when they can get cutting edge for a lesser price?

Detroitblue

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#5

Post by Jack_Hester » Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:01 pm

Detroitblue -

I believe that another generation of 'bikers' has to pass, before the true enthusiasts learn about what we are discussing in this thread. As long as the Evos and TC's are flooding the market, take advantage of the ignorance to the old machines. A rare few people see them for what they are, up front. Most catch on by fad alone. And, abandon them, because they require some little TLC (chains, check the oil when you top off the gas tank, adjust the valves if they are mechanical lifters, etc.). In other words, the TLC makes them no fun. Someday, along with inflated prices, they will not be as readily available at affordable prices. And, the good deals will only be heard of, after they were a good deal to someone else.

Jack

wheels
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#6

Post by wheels » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:01 pm

in april 04 i bought a 61 pan original with everything on it for 13,500 from a dealer sight unseen off the internet. got it shipped to me in a crate. couldn't get it to run, took it to a mechanic he got it runnin and then it locked up. thank god i got it from a dealer who gave me his word it would run good and stood by his word. he gave me three options, have my guy rebuild, they would rebuild or my money back. in the mean time they had gotten a nice 65 in and they ended up tradin me the 65 for the61 came and delivered and picked up the bikes and threw in a harley leather of my choice. oh yeah, i gave them another $1500. so i got a nice 65 all original strong runner with good title for $15,000. it sounds kinda high to me but i was scared to death of the 61 and i got what i wanted a good running panhead that i can ride the wheels off of. all in all i'm very pleased.

Detroitblue
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Close call for Wheels

#7

Post by Detroitblue » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:00 pm

Wheels

That was a close call you had with a money pit. You would have been dumping so much cash into that bike before it was all over that it would have been pathetic.

I noticed that a couple Non-Harley bike manufacturers like Triton are making bikes that cost way more then the Harley bikes. But I can't imagine that the re-sale on those bikes would be anything like the 20 or 30 grand they are asking for.

Jack I guess you are right, that these Pans aren't old enough yet or shall I say rare enough the be appreciated like they should.

Is it true that the repops are going for three times the new harleys, Vintage Twin?

VT

#8

Post by VT » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:47 am

No one knows or is coming forward with what one costs. V-Twin advertises 15K rolling bare metal knuckle bobbers, but I can't remember whether that's dealer price or retail! Many think that if you build a replica, that's basically it's restricted in resale value. It's a young industry that is only about 3 yr's old as far as complete Knuckle motors. They've been selling Knuckle motors from V-Twin for about a year now. I think there will come a time within the next three yrs., when no one will sell their OE machines. Pan & Knuckle that is.

Detroitblue
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What I am getting is this...

#9

Post by Detroitblue » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:47 am

Well so far I have gotton some great insite.

From what I can tell, the most valuable Panhead to own is a first model year with all original everything and with matching numbers and paper work. If I had a bike like that then I could ask for more then 20k. Prehaps as much as 35k or 40k? But now I am guessing.

I have also learned that most people are paying around 14k for a vintage pan.

Thanks to Vintage Twin I have learned that there are certain model years that are very attractive for a particular feature like Iron heads, or a perfected motor or a color sceme.

I have learned that it is more expensive and harder to restore a bike then it is to buy one already restored unless you do most of the work yourself.

Well that is all I can think of at the moment

I am still learning

VT

#10

Post by VT » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:17 pm

'
"The most valuable Panhead to own is a first model year with all original everything and with matching numbers and paper work".

Actually ANY year Panhead, with alot of original parts, numbers and paperwork is valuable. 1965-up is another era.
"Everybody liking something different is what makes the whole thing "go around." - Pat Kennedy 1988
But, 1936 to 1959 OHV is a breed of it's own. It can be boxed. There are no mysterys. Almost every improvement is documented. There are stations along the 23 yr. run of manual advance motors. It can be learned.
Last edited by VT on Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wheels
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#11

Post by wheels » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:50 pm

hey Detoitblue, you can see a picture of my 65 on the picture gallery now. mostly original. i took alot of stuff off of it, fender rails crash bars, ect. ipaid top dollar because it was mostly original and good title. 65's are alittle different but they are good upgrades, 12 volt and electric start. got luckey with this one. she's a strong runner.

Detroitblue
Posts: 45
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The 65 is sweet

#12

Post by Detroitblue » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:08 am

Oh Yeah! Wheels,

I was checking out your bike even before I saw your post. She is a Beauty.

Just for the record, I love all the pans and in many ways I find the bikes of the 60's more aestetically pleasing then most of the other models except for my "58" ha! Ha!. Just kidding.

But seriously, I think that what they did with the headlight cover and the trim greatly improved the smooth lines of the bike. As matter of fact my bike has a 65 headlight cover. But it came to me that way.

In this respect I realize that all vintage bike are valuable. I am just trying to pin down the true value of these bikes for my own personal knowledge. I am sure that all of you consider your bikes nearly priceless and would probably throw blows with Mike Tyson if he tried to take it from you.

My bike was given to me by my Dad, who still lives, and for a very long time I figured that, the old Harley was the most valuable thing in our family possession. I was thinking it was worth about $100,000 or more until I became the owner and really got into the bike. Then found out that they sell for 13,000 on the regular. Never the less my bike is an important part of my family heritage. And I hope to pass it on to the next generation.


p.s. Anytime a novist or non harley person gets a load of my vintage Harley their eyes light up like I showed them a pot of gold. They realize that they are looking at a 46 year old peice of machinery and they automatically put a high price tag on the old Harley Davidson brand name.

Guest

#13

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:10 pm

I know I am new to this forum but not to Pans, I can not resist providing my 2 cents. I think the reason to own these old machines is not for the investment value but the joy of making it a original as possible and the labor of love keeping it running and running right.

I built a 57 FLH when you could buy a box of parts for 600 bulks and 4K later have a nice ride, I kept it 3 years after spending 3 years assembling. I thought I want a new Fatboy in 95 and sold the Pan for 10K in 95. Well it is nearly 10 years later, a fatboy, 01 Heritage softail springer that have come and gone, I was lucky enough to find a pretty clean and mostly right 1949 for 10K, from my brother otherwise I am sure I would have possibly paid 2-4K more.

I think I will now have the perfect collection of bikes in the garage, the 49 EL to keep me busy tinkering, a 98 Ultra Clasic for long FAST rides and my wifes Low rider if I get board.

Guest

#14

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:10 pm

I know I am new to this forum but not to Pans, I can not resist providing my 2 cents. I think the reason to own these old machines is not for the investment value but the joy of making it a original as possible and the labor of love keeping it running and running right.

I built a 57 FLH when you could buy a box of parts for 600 bulks and 4K later have a nice ride, I kept it 3 years after spending 3 years assembling. I thought I want a new Fatboy in 95 and sold the Pan for 10K in 95. Well it is nearly 10 years later, a fatboy, 01 Heritage softail springer that have come and gone, I was lucky enough to find a pretty clean and mostly right 1949 for 10K, from my brother otherwise I am sure I would have possibly paid 2-4K more.

I think I will now have the perfect collection of bikes in the garage, the 49 EL to keep me busy tinkering, a 98 Ultra Clasic for long FAST rides and my wifes Low rider if I get board.

Jack_Hester
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I'm headed in the other direction....

#15

Post by Jack_Hester » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:27 pm

Guest -

I'm ridding myself of all that is newer than Shovelheads. I have only one that new. I have an '84 SoftTail that I bought as an investment. 3.9 original miles on it. Trailered it home and took the battery out of it. So, it's not been run since the dealer had it. As soon as I can sell it, I will pick up the pace on my other basket cases that I have been trying to get started on, for restorations as total road machines. And, now that I'm recovering from an encounter with a minivan, that totaled my 76 FLH, I've got some time to plan. Hope to be back to walking without a cane or walker, in a couple more weeks.

My point is: I am regressing to the older machines exclusively. I have no qualms towards the Evos and TC's. Finest, maintenance free machines that have come out of the 'factory'. Preservation of our rolling history is all that matters to me, now. My 42 WLA is the first to be completed. Christmas of this year was my original goal. Now, next Spring (2005). Then, my 47 Indian Chief will get full attention, with the total rebuild of my 59 FLH happening some along the way. Hopefully, both of those will be back on the road by next Summer. A more realistice goal is just sometime by the end of next year. Then, look out for me on the backroads. I'm pressing them into service as my primary road machines, to once again to begin traveling the U.S..

My 76 FLH will get slow attention, but will finish after the others. It will need a frame straightening. But, when I'm done, it will be back in service with the rest. All will be posted here and other places, throughout the next couple of years.

Jack

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