1965 Pan

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fourthgear
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1965 Pan

#1

Post by fourthgear » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:13 am

When all the OEM crowd take a look at the Pan I just bought for the Ol'lady they will probably be doing jaw drop tests on there boots. My wife wanted a Soft Tail Duce and I got her a version of the Panhead Duce! When the main man clears it, the photo's in the Panhead photos.
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fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#2

Post by fourthgear » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:07 pm

I got the 65 home and up on the lift to check her out formally and found some things that will have to be addressed (of course I have to disassemble to inspect every thing, yep down to the frame)There is an upper motor mount which is not like any thing I have seen before , there is a chromed straight piece of stock from one head to another and another piece that is bolted to the straight piece and bolted to the frame and the frame looks like its cracked at the mount. Compression is 60# front and 70 # rear , so that will have to addressed also.
Has any one seen a mount like the one I described? I know its custom, just curious.

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#3

Post by fourthgear » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:14 pm

I just was looking thru the JP 's catalog and found that motor mount and it says its for a Shovel head from 66-84, part # 4300105. I never measured but are the head configurations that close to be able to use one of these or this one could be altered?

hplhd
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Re: 1965 Pan

#4

Post by hplhd » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:06 am

fourthgear, i have the two piece top mount like your talking about like the one from jp. from head to head it's fine. the whole scoot is a slew of difrent parts in a rigid frame with 59 motor and trns. just shimmed it a might at the frame mount.

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#5

Post by fourthgear » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:33 pm

Pulled the primary cover from the 65 last night and found it doesn't have the compensator on the sprocket shaft and the nut had to be put on with an impact because even with a helper bar I couldn't get it loose. My neighbor will help hold the Pan today while I put some real torque to it. I kinda like that compensator on there for a few reasons and one will be installed when reassembled. I have never dabled with removing one , I have always repaired or replaced them if they needed it ( not many that I have seen go bad ), what reason s do you have for eliminating it (belt drive aside )bigger sprocket for low end or speed?
I also see some funny things with the starter shaft and starter clutch which I will check out after I get the sprocket shaft nut and drive assembly off.

Cotten
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Re: 1965 Pan

#6

Post by Cotten » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:39 pm

Try a chunk of lead, such as an auto wheel weight, bound between the chain and sprocket teeth.
(But don't let the chain hit the inside of the primary.)

....Cotten

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#7

Post by fourthgear » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:05 pm

Cotten
I actually use the end( Handle ) of an appropriate craftsmen screw driver in there and I have seen where, if the chain is too loose you can crack the inter primary by the force of the chain being pushed up, I do have some lead bars from when I used to cast my own bullets, the lead is much more forgiving, I'm going to have to dig them up. The screw driver used for this is not used for any thing else, it be kinda chopped up here and there.
Even with the tires on the ground and four straps on the lift , I was moving the lift around and could not hold and put torque to it at the same time by myself, tight nut ,but one I have to crack.

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#8

Post by fourthgear » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:35 pm

I got the sprocket nut off last night with the help of my neighbor /riding bro and his extra 260lbs.I thought I was twisting the shaft at first ,but the nut came off. I also found that it all looks brand new in the primary drive and has something called " THE TAMER " on the clutch drum/basket and I will have to remove the clutch hub nut to remove the drum/basket, no slop in the drum/basket at all ,good thing. The seller actually has paper work for it( I found this morning ).Never worked with this tamer before , seems like a good idea. I was perplexed at first of why the clutch basket/drum did not slide right off and then I saw the extra stuff in there. Looks like a new style clutch in here ,has bonded aluminum plates and all looks like new. Primary chain also looks new , this was set up with a sealed primary and filled with oil.Hope I'm not boring any of you-all with this disassembly.
I'm taking photos of all phases of disassembly ,if any are interested in any part.

Billy
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Re: 1965 Pan

#9

Post by Billy » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:44 am

fourthgear-..

I've had pretty good luck using the ram-jets (not tried the tamer)
A friend has though..
Nice looking Pan U got for your wife !!!
I am running Barnett's alum plates w/bonded green kevlar plates, they work fine !!
As far as your primary being sealed. That's IMO the best way.
Better than HD's way of sharing the primary oil by pumping it in & out of the primary thru the motor oil. (never liked that design..)
Clutches can really pig up the oil. Who wants that running thru their motor???

Gearbox
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Re: 1965 Pan

#10

Post by Gearbox » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:05 pm

Well the motor is out and is on the stand on the bench, another one in you stand mbskeam, thanks. There are a couple of things that gave me trouble ( of course I didn't expect it to go easy ) The use of Allen head bolts on this bike is one of them , I do not have the Allen adapter setup for a ratchet and in over thirty years of working on HD's , I have never needed them , well I wish I had some last night because there we in the hardest places to get at with normal Allen wrench. The studs for the starter housing were replaced with Allen bolts ,bad idea, those studs are there for a purpose , alignment of the housing and gasket,seals when reassembling after servicing and the studs are easily replaced if the threads strip or get worn out from servicing instead of the threading in the aluminum inner primary. With older HD's starter assemblies , they require regular servicing, that system takes allot of abuse just doing its thing.
Even the the lower motor mount bolts are Allen type with out washers under the heads, another bad idea.The upper motor mount as described above , is a two piece design , one sort of flat bar stock between the heads and an angled one to attach it to the frame , it is a massive piece of work. The bolt that attached these two together (yes another Allen bolt ) was rusted so bad it took me a half hour too get it loose enough to get the assembly off. I also found cracks in the frame upper mount that will have to be welded up, I believe the mount set up could have contributed to this problem.
Another thing that as assemblers of these machines is that you have to think about where and in what direction fasteners like hose clamps are facing , I had to twist all of the clamps that attached the oil line hoses to the oil pump to get a nut driver on them , its almost like they installed them before the motor was installed , they were all pointing down, now way to put even a screw driver on them from underneath , the frame is in the way, they could have twisted them after installing them to make it look good ,not seeing the clamp heads.
That clutch tamer and clutch drum came off when clutch hub was pulled and even tho I was ready for it, those rollers went all over the place( no caged bearing , its got those long rollers ,like I put in my other Pan ), 52 pick up, like a card game, fun stuff.
sleeper
I will be using the oil bath set for the clutch ,upon reassembly, it is a good set up.

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#11

Post by fourthgear » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:46 pm

Pulled heads and cyl. yesterday , really no big surprises, found both head gaskets blown @ return oil hole area, might have altered compression reading and definitely why she was blowing oil from breather ,deep impressions from threaded inserts in gasket , there will need to be cut back and probably why gaskets did not keep seal , front base gasket blown out same area ( a lot of oil in front area of motor ) It looks like a stroked motor ,S&S pistons and pretty sure rods are not stock.
There strangest thing of all is the rear exh. push rod , the hardened bearing end is gone and the rocker was just chewing up the tube about an inch shorter than the rest ,when I pulled the cover tubes up ,the first thing I noticed was the amount of threads showing on the adj., do ya think some one put it in that way? I found no parts of the hardened tip in there at all, crazy stuff.( will post photo you gotta see this)
The tranny case is all chrome , I like chrome ,but thats a bit much, tranny case has what looks like 1969 numbers on it and in neutral its in gear ,not a good thing , bent or out of adj. shifter forks? Will dissemble next week for inspection.

Gearbox
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Re: 1965 Pan

#12

Post by Gearbox » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm

Heres the photos of the push rod in question and I can not (or don't want to ) believe some one put this push rod in there like this. I have not found any part of it at all. Notice how the tubing is peeling off the tube at the rocker.

Image
Image

Cotten
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Re: 1965 Pan

#13

Post by Cotten » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:44 pm

Methinks the one on the top of the second pic is for a Chubblehead.

The rings of damage from the covers are typical of the too-fat cheapo pushrods. Consider where that metal went, too.

It used to be that only S&S made (modern) skinny pushrods, but hopefully more are on the market now.

....Cotten

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#14

Post by fourthgear » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:26 pm

Cotten
You could be right on all accounts, I will be replacing all the push rods. Just to let you know the other two are the same as the top one in the photo.
The motor is already apart and no signs of any thing in there , just damn strange,you would think it would be in the rocker area some where, like you said about the missing material, it had to go some where.

fourthgear
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Re: 1965 Pan

#15

Post by fourthgear » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:10 pm

I found out by the numbers on the fly wheels ( S&S ) and bore that this motor is a 86 ci. along with that B grind cam I kinda new it was a stroker, the case is also cleared for the rods. I took some photos of the head gaskets and will post them when I get a chance for any one interested to see what the deep imprints of the threaded inserts look like. You know you won't get a good seal for long when you see them like this. I have my bottom end in the same shop who did the work on my other Pan just to check the fly wheel assembly out to see how it shapes up in there , I will let you know how it turns out.
The way the back tire is bald and the fact that this 65 is set up like a racer( drag bars , disc brakes, stroked etc. ) , they might have been using it like the clip that Panhead put in about" how not to treat your Panhead".

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