Knuckle/pan identification

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fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Knuckle/pan identification

#1

Post by fourthgear » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:36 pm

I would like to pick you alls brainiacks on a pan I've got, it is serial numbered 47 FL, but after taking the bottom ends apart it has 48 cast into both halfs . I read some where that HD made a few Pans for the trade show in mid 47 could this one of those or just a knuck/pan? any ideas from any one ? I'm new to this chat room stuff , what I've been reading here , if anyone knows it will come from this format.



Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Knuckle/pan

#2

Post by Cotten » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:23 pm

Sorry, but I'd be more than a little suspicious, unless you can dig up bonafide researchable documentation from the Factory, and the VIN is a match.

There just wasn't any such thing as a knuckpan. The top end oiling and breather passages within the right cases are radically different, along with the cast-in cylinder drains and tappetguide holes. I think the cylinder deck heights are even different.

(The barroom mis-nomer of "panshovel" is irksome as well, but at least a chubble top end can be bolted on after the fact.)

I imagine the -48 number on the case halves that you refer to is the production number stamped on the belly.
Your VIN might still be legal, if it can be shown to be a Factory replacement, as many Dealerships were issued "open titles", a practice that is now illegal. But since a Pan doesn't fit into a knuck frame, that's a lot to swallow.

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Knuckle/pan

#3

Post by fourthgear » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:19 pm

Cotton

The numbers on the boss are org. , no mods.. Its does have pan cyl., heads ect. and its in a stock 58 frame. I have not worked with pans that much , this is my second , I rebuilt my first one in the early 70's and have had shovels since. how do I know if it a knuckle bottom ? I did have an upper end oiling problem but found someone had drilled into the crankcase from the rear tappet oiling hole . No idea why they did that !
The numbers I was refering to are the cast ones inside the case halfs, both match and the last number is 48. The scoot was running when I bought it but had some problems with tranny and other things . I found the oiling problem upon disassembly.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Knuckle/pan

#4

Post by Cotten » Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:19 pm

The numbers inside the cases are part #s, with the -48 suffix indicating year that it was blueprinted.

Your belly #s would be more enlightening.

The '48 right case was very similar to the knuck in that it has the same casting conformity directly over the rear end of the cam cover for the early breathing passages to drain the tappetblocks, but they are not drilled internally on a Pan.

But it would be very hard to install Pan tappetblocks upon a knuck case without having the breathing/drain holes exposed. Perhaps that is what you refer to?

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Knuckle/pan

#5

Post by fourthgear » Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:10 pm

Cotten

I believe The belly numbers have a 47 at the end and both halfs have same numbers. I do have some photos at my home PC I will post tomarrow, if I can figure out how on here . I 'm not sure what you mean by drain holes . the tappet blocks holes look like shovel block set up , one small hole for feed for each one, in the case . We believe some one tried to have this motor set up for hydrolics and found it didn't work . I really have no idea why they drilled into the tappet block oil feed hole. All I know is the oil just blew out of my breather because of this drill thru into the crank case. It never had a chance to got to my upper end . The bottom end is being rebuilt right now , maybe photos might let you see sometimg to help my out.

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Knuckle/pan

#6

Post by fourthgear » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:42 pm

Cotten

After looking at shop drawings of Knuckel head engines , I have Pan Cases. I never had or worked on a Knuckel before and did not realize what big diff. there are between the two . My question to all out there is why is it numbered 47fl. Can I say I have a 47 Pan , which we know started in 48? Harley says they have no records before 62. So i guess I'll never know for sure . The numbers boss hasn't been touched , thats easy to tell if it has .Very interesting , any ideas anyone .

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