56 pan won't start at all. Help.

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old52pan
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56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#1

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:59 am

Hi all, 56 stock pan refuses to start, great compression both cylinders, readjusted valve lash.(lowest point on cam lobe then set pushrod to spin with two fingers, linkert system with no intake leaks,checked with air pressure and soap bubbles, 6-volt, hot spark blue in color.checked timing per the manual, right on. new plugs. won't even fire on starting fluid. tired of kicking and pissed.Please help-60panman



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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#2

Post by Bosheff » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:45 am

How did it run last time you started it? How long since it ran last? If it's got spark and fuel it should at least fire. Remove plugs, check gap, squirt raw fuel in cylinders with a syringe, reinstall plugs. Kick. If everything is as you say it is, it should at least bark.

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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#3

Post by mbskeam » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:46 am

check your timing...
180 out maybe?

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#4

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:57 am

the bike ran before a month ago but has always required 50 kicks to start, Always needed a shot of either to get it going. not good. I looked in the linkert manifold and gas was just laying in the back of it. plugs seem to be dry also. gas dribbles out the front of the linkert also. I timed the motor by rotating it until the front intake pushrod began to come down, then watching for the line in the flywheel as I continued to rotatre the motor a bit. stopping when the line is just visable in the timing hole window. then setting the line on the timer shaft with the fibre on the points. also set the points before beginning to .022. I am also using an original coil with original wires. I am stumped on this one. I like these old bikes but cannot kick one 25 times to start each time. and carry around a can of starting fluid.60panman

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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#5

Post by mbskeam » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:13 am

what shape is the dist. in? does the shaft have side play? and a lot of end play?
this will make your bike a bear to start...I know....LOL

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#6

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:18 am

The timer shaft does have about .010 side to side movement when I grab it. Had an auto advance unit in when I got the pan and it still started this way.

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#7

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:33 am

is it possible to be 180 degree out of time? with the procedure I used?

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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#8

Post by mbskeam » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:36 am

as long as the front cyl is on the comp. stroke and the small part of the timer lobe is at the rubbing block and the timing mark is in the window then it should be good...
.010 is a lot of side play...
what do think your point gap is doing?

the reason I say this, is mine had .004/.005 side to side and once I got it to less than .001 it starts way better

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#9

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:50 am

I just tried again and with the timing fully advanced I gently kick her over and the motor kicks back, fully retarded and nothing.

62pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#10

Post by 62pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:02 pm

It sounds as though you might be one tooth off on your timing. Although you have probably already checked, make sure that your points are clean. Run a new business card through them to remove any oil or dirt that may be there. Also try another coil, many years ago I had a knucklehead that ran like a bat out of hell...when you could get it started. Hot or cold it required dozens of kicks. Finally after a couple of months I replaced the coil (it was a newer round style) with an ancient genuine one and it started on one kick thereafter. It would produce a blue spark with the plug out of the motor, but apparently there wasn't enough energy to fire the plug under compression.

Just as an aside, on my 62 I have found that it runs and starts better using the old roadside method of setting the points/timing. Set the gap with a matchbook cover and the timing using a cellophane wrapper off of a cigarette package. Using this method it always starts one one kick (unless there is an audience watching).

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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#11

Post by NightShift » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:20 pm

I know a fella who uses sparkplug on a coil lead to set his timing.

A silly LED on wires is a lot easier for old eyes and old fingers. They dont break in the toolbag like bulbs.

'Spectful,

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#12

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 pm

thanks for the replies, I will try another coil and clean and reset the points again. Forgot to mention the previous owner did install a new cam. I wonder if he was off one tooth in the cam chest? Although It ran great when I could get it started.60panman

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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#13

Post by VPH-D » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:45 pm

Any more history? Has the bike always been like this? Recent rebuild?
VPH-D

old52pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#14

Post by old52pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:02 pm

bike has always started like this since I owned it, previous owner said the heads were rebuilt, It came with an s&s shorty,auto advance timer, 12 volt coil and battery, still started this way. so whatever the problem is replacing all those items with the original's didn't do a thing. I installed a linkert m-74 freshly rebuilt, a stock 6-colt coil, stock timer, still will not start w/o 50 kicks and starting fluid.I beleive the cam is and andrews b-grind.

62pan
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Re: 56 pan won't start at all. Help.

#15

Post by 62pan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:07 pm

Had a 'B' cam in mine and it still started OK, so I don't think that is the problem. I see that you have replaced the coil, distributor etc. and none of that has changed the hard starting. Have you checked the compression? If you have the valves adjusted too tight it will be hard to start. It still sounds as though the timing is off I would check it again.

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