Drum brake drag

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Willy G.
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Drum brake drag

#1

Post by Willy G. » Mon May 26, 2008 10:02 pm

OK here we go, My front brake has drag in it, I can get a half turn out of the wheel before hearing the drag. I adjusted it but can't get the lever adjustment right (1/4 pull till it starts to work) without hearing the drag. Any tricks to doing this before I take a look at the drum, shoes, cable and return spring. Thanks, Willy
Also, what size is the socket nuts on the for the drum or is it a special tool



Cotten
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#2

Post by Cotten » Mon May 26, 2008 11:28 pm

Willy!

The lugs use a 7/16" Allen key.
Although the short end of a common key cam be turned in many ways, some opt for ~5" straight piece that can be managed with a socket.

If your wheel bearings seem reasonable, and you have aready centered the shoes as per the Factory manual, of course,....
Try to observe if the drag might be sideways travel instead of radial with the axis of the wheel. Is there excessive sideplay on the hub?

It is prudent then open the assembly to see if anything obvious jumps out, like a shiny spot on a spring or side of shoe.

The radial excentricity of your drum wobble is additive error from the clearances of the bearings, machining accuracy of the hub flange, and similar accuracy upon the drum.

Then try rotating the indexing of the drum upon the hub. Mark the spot first where it appears to have the most out-out-round travel. Then listen or feel for its interference and compare.
Some lucky intuition is required to nail it quickly, but moving the drum just a bolt hole over can make an difference. My best luck has been to turn it two or three naturally, but four is also -1!

Have fun,

....Cotten

Willy G.
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#3

Post by Willy G. » Tue May 27, 2008 3:31 am

Thanks Cotten, I've looked at the drum moving on a lift and there's maybe 1/16 of an inch movement (wobble) the shoes look good with no shinny spots or marks anywhere, the cable doesn't return all the way so I think that's part of it. The drum has 2 small spots where there's no contact and a small bit of rust built up. I'm thinking of turning the drum as I can't get enough adjustment from the cable with out drag. It seem as though the shoes are to big and the smallest cable ajustment makes it drag. I clean it up with break clean and grease the levers tomarrow. Thanks again, Willy
ps. Can the springs be moved to the inner posts of the shoe for better return.

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#4

Post by Cotten » Tue May 27, 2008 12:52 pm

Willy!

The springs should be on the posts farthest from the drum to avoid rubbing.

Turning the drum is something to avoid if possible, as the linings must then be arc'd to match. Often that calls for oversized linings in the first place. You may want to seek out automotive shops that provide a bonding service before you take that leap.

...Cotten

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#5

Post by Panacea » Tue May 27, 2008 2:04 pm

Vintage Brake did my drum, Michael Morse turned the drum to remove an "evil" layer of chrome then replaced the stock friction material with a modern type then arced the shoes to fit the drum. The result was noticably improved but by no means good. Mike

Willy G.
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#6

Post by Willy G. » Tue May 27, 2008 8:24 pm

Cotten wrote:Willy!

The lugs use a 7/16" Allen key.
Although the short end of a common key cam be turned in many ways, some opt for ~5" straight piece that can be managed with a socket.
ahhhh, The all illusive 7/16 allen, do they import those from mars :D

john HD
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#7

Post by john HD » Tue May 27, 2008 10:28 pm

Willy G. wrote:
Cotten wrote:Willy!

The lugs use a 7/16" Allen key.
Although the short end of a common key cam be turned in many ways, some opt for ~5" straight piece that can be managed with a socket.
ahhhh, The all illusive 7/16 allen, do they import those from mars :D
no, but a lot of common cold chisels are this size. cut off and coupled with a socket make a pretty cheap wrench!

john

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#8

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue May 27, 2008 11:30 pm

Willie G.

Every WLA & WLC came with one of these in the tool bag, a short piece of pipe or an old pump handle from a bottle jack makes them even more persuasive. Don't leave home without one!, and a small tube of LOCTITE, and maybe an extra lug bolt or two.

Kurt has them at 45 Parts Depot, but they are available almost anywhere.

mike

https://flatland.oursafeserver.com/45pa ... _id=145046
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#9

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue May 27, 2008 11:46 pm

and, like Cotten has said, "money spent on tools is never wasted".

Truer words were never spoken.

I am also convinced that, along with the lug wrench, every WL also came with one of those cold chisels that John mentioned along with a big hammer. I'm sure that the original owners of all my old bikes were stopped at the door of the dealership and the dealer said "Wait, you almost forgot your hammer and chisel!"

mike

Panacea
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#10

Post by Panacea » Wed May 28, 2008 1:13 am

I got one like Mike posted above from Bills in PA, I like it better than my old method of a stub allen with a 7/16 deep socket, the one piece allen never falls under the tire to the other side of the bike, and it's one tool to carry instead of four. (allen,socket,extention,ratchet).

Willy G.
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Location: Carolina

#11

Post by Willy G. » Wed May 28, 2008 4:08 am

FlatHeadSix wrote:Willie G.

Every WLA & WLC came with one of these in the tool bag, a short piece of pipe or an old pump handle from a bottle jack makes them even more persuasive. Don't leave home without one!, and a small tube of LOCTITE, and maybe an extra lug bolt or two.

Kurt has them at 45 Parts Depot, but they are available almost anywhere.

mike

https://flatland.oursafeserver.com/45pa ... _id=145046


I think we have a winner!!!!!!!!!! Thanks

Willy G.
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Location: Carolina

#12

Post by Willy G. » Wed May 28, 2008 4:21 am

Cotten wrote:Willy!

The springs should be on the posts farthest from the drum to avoid rubbing.

Turning the drum is something to avoid if possible, as the linings must then be arc'd to match. Often that calls for oversized linings in the first place. You may want to seek out automotive shops that provide a bonding service before you take that leap.

...Cotten
Cleaned everything up today and can only get 3 or 4 full turns of the cable adjuster before drag starts. The springs are on the forkleg or outer side of the shoes but there are 4 posts with notches that the spring could go on. Inner towards the middle of the shoe and outer, the one's there on now. It was hard enough to put them on on the outers so I don't think I'll go inners.
I'll try to index the drum when I get the 7/16 wrench. The shoes still don't return fully? maybe the cable sticking. The brake lever should not reach the bars right? and you should be able to lock them up? at least on a lift. Thanks again, Willy

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#13

Post by Kuda » Wed May 28, 2008 3:38 pm

>The springs are on the forkleg or outer side of the shoes but there are 4 posts with notches that the spring could go on. Inner towards the middle of the shoe and outer, the one's there on now. It was hard enough to put them on on the outers so I don't think I'll go inners.

Like Cotton said, the springs MUST go on the notch that's on the opposite side of the drum, i.e. towards the backing plate. Otherwise they'll rub while you're going down the road. And they should go on the top and bottom-most studs. You'll never get them on the middle studs, not without stretching the springs...

>I'll try to index the drum when I get the 7/16 wrench. The shoes still don't return fully? maybe the cable sticking. The brake lever should not reach the bars right? and you should be able to lock them up? at least on a lift.

Definately lube the cable well, with the shoes OFF the backing plate if possible. Cable lube has a nasty tendency to seep into the drum and contaminate the linings. Once the cable's nice and loose, make sure you've got a light coat of high-temp grease on the pivot points in the drum as well. If all that checks out and it still won't return, either the shoes are the wrong size, the drum is warped beyond repair, or the springs are shot...

-Kuda
'49 panchop (yeah, mine binds a bit too...)

Willy G.
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Location: Carolina

#14

Post by Willy G. » Wed May 28, 2008 10:18 pm

I found a very nice set of impact allenhead sockets at harbor freight for 20 bucks and the 7/16- 3/8 drive is long enough to go through the hub holes. On another note indexing the drum did not do squat, so I'm back to square one with the drag. Has anyone heard of "self-servo" or "self-applying" characteristic. Do old Harley's have this, if so it would explain alot.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=96076

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#15

Post by Panacea » Thu May 29, 2008 2:59 am

My front brake needed a thick washer (3/16) placed onto the pivot stud to make the shoes sit correctly inside the drum, courtesy of Vintage Brake. Yes she locks up great on the lift....on the road is a different story. Mike

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