one or two rear brake springs

Forum rules
Please do not start new topics here, but here: New Panhead and Flathead topics
Post Reply
1950EL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 am
Bikes: 1950 EL, 1983 Honda CR480, 2012 FLHTK
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time

one or two rear brake springs

#1

Post by 1950EL » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:17 am

When I pulled the rear brake apart on my 1950EL to investigate some grabbiness I found two springs. I almost remember that there should only be one. Is two better, worse, or no different than one?



1950Panhead
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:28 am
Bikes: 1950Panhead
Location: USA
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#2

Post by 1950Panhead » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:04 am

Parts manual shows one spring.
Common sense says there should be two but anyone who owns a panhead does not have any common sense so just use one.

Panacea
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#3

Post by Panacea » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:53 am

1950Panhead wrote:Parts manual shows one spring.
Common sense says there should be two but anyone who owns a panhead does not have any common sense so just use one.
I hear ya :mrgreen:

51Hog
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:29 pm
Bikes: 1951 Fl
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#4

Post by 51Hog » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:16 pm

I too have some grabbyness on my rear brake.
Didn't have it until I replaced the shoes.
I did bevel the leading and trailing edges of the liners before installing them.
I didn't fit the diamater of the liner to the drum. Just figured it shouldn't take long to wear in.
I did adjust the pivot with the brake applied.
Dale

1950EL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 am
Bikes: 1950 EL, 1983 Honda CR480, 2012 FLHTK
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#5

Post by 1950EL » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:56 pm

Thanks. Any idea how tight on the brake sleeve nut? I can't find any reference to it.....

51Hog
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:29 pm
Bikes: 1951 Fl
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#6

Post by 51Hog » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:00 pm

I have not seen any specs on it either.
I just tighten it til it feels right.....

1950EL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 am
Bikes: 1950 EL, 1983 Honda CR480, 2012 FLHTK
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#7

Post by 1950EL » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:13 pm

During this ten year project I've had some trouble with that feeling "right" thing. Every time I tighten the sleeve nut the wheel cocks. I'll try it a little looser.

Bigincher
Posts: 2817
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
1994 Fatboy
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#8

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:45 am

1950EL wrote:Every time I tighten the sleeve nut the wheel cocks. I'll try it a little looser.
I've been down that road. It's caused by the axle plate being bent, or skewed. I went through many hours of meticulous work, checking the alignment and perpendicularity to the axis of the frame figuring out what needed to be done, then took it to my frame guy for him to tweak and get it right. I'm glad I went through all the trouble-- when I tighten the brake sleeve nut, the axle remains dead true. If you want me to elaborate, I did take a bunch of photos when I did this.

Bigincher
Posts: 2817
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
1994 Fatboy
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#9

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:49 am

51Hog wrote:I too have some grabbyness on my rear brake.
Didn't have it until I replaced the shoes.
I did bevel the leading and trailing edges of the liners before installing them.
I didn't fit the diamater of the liner to the drum. Just figured it shouldn't take long to wear in.
I did adjust the pivot with the brake applied.
Dale
I always have the shoes arced to the drum at a brake shop. I used to re-line my own shoes; as you know, it's not at all hard if you have the right rivet setting tool, but nowadays I just take the shoes and drum to a clutch/brake relining shop and have them bond new lining on and arc the shoes. I have a place nearby that does it for $15 a shoe. And they have a variety of material to use for liner; I always use the softer organic type-- they wear out sooner, but have the most 'grab'. How can ya beat that?

1950EL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 am
Bikes: 1950 EL, 1983 Honda CR480, 2012 FLHTK
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#10

Post by 1950EL » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:57 am

bigincher- what you're saying makes sense. I'd like whatever you have to offer.

Bigincher
Posts: 2817
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
1994 Fatboy
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#11

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:50 am

1950EL wrote:bigincher- what you're saying makes sense. I'd like whatever you have to offer.
Okay, here goes--- the abreviated version.

First thing you do is go to the Panhead manual, page 36. The diagram tells how to set up a straight edge that runs the length of the frame. It calls for a piece of 1/2" x 1" bar stock, but I used my 6-foot level. The level is only 7/8" thick, so I compensated for that using 7/16" shim at the threaded rod that screws into the transmission plate mounting hole. (See diagram) I had to fabricate the threaded rod.

Here's a photo of my simple straight edge setup.
alignmentcheck01pd5.jpg
With the straight edge in place, you now have a true measuring point which runs parallel to the axis of the frame. Install the axle, brake backing plate, brake sleeve and sleeve nut.
alignmentcheck04ai7.jpg
On my frame, when I tightened the sleeve nut, the axle would move about 1/4" towards the rear of the bike. Here's a photo of the axle with the sleeve nut tightened, and with a small machinest's square, you can see how far out of square the axle is to the straight edge.
img2962s.jpg
The distance between the axle plates must be 8-3/4" (+ or - 1/8"). To correct this issue and maintain this measurement, I took the frame to my frame restorer, and he jigged it up on his table (laid on the side), and devised a means to hold the axle plates at the correct distance, and with another fixture bolted to the offending axle plate, used controlled brute force (and careful taps with his hammer--- "to relieve the molecules") muscled the plate into alignment. I had my brake parts and axle with me, to check the progress and final results of his work, until it came out perfect.
I would not reccommend trying this unless you are set up to work on frames, and have some experience in tweaking frames. (Although I'm sure everyone knows this, NEVER use heat when bending, straitening, or tweaking any part of a frame.)

Hope this helps.....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

1950EL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 am
Bikes: 1950 EL, 1983 Honda CR480, 2012 FLHTK
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#12

Post by 1950EL » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:45 am

That looks exactly like my situation. I was hoping it was a backing plate issue and not the frame. Sad news after 10 years and just a few hundred miles of sorting out my mistakes. Thanks for the clarification.

Bigincher
Posts: 2817
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
1994 Fatboy
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#13

Post by Bigincher » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:26 am

1950EL wrote:That looks exactly like my situation. I was hoping it was a backing plate issue and not the frame. Sad news after 10 years and just a few hundred miles of sorting out my mistakes. Thanks for the clarification.
I got this frame in unknown condition. Close eyeball inspection clearly showed the whole rear of the frame had taken a pretty good smack and skewed it off to the right. It's not hard to envision how the axle plates would remain parallel, yet the rear end of the frame was bent to the right. It's also not hard to envision how the axle plates would be out of whack once the frame was straightened-- the plates would be splayed in just this manner, causing the out-of-perpendicular condition.
A good frame man can take care of it with minimal effort. However, if your frame has this problem, what else is screwed up with it? I encourage you to fab up the straightedge and make the rudimentary measurement, and confirm for yourself how true the rear of the frame is. Then find a good frame man to fix it. My guy lives in Tacoma, Washington, and he's one of the best 'old guys' left that really knows frame work-- pretty close to me, but of course frames can be shipped. FedEx runs about $150 each way from one side of the Country to the other. I DO know two places NOT to send a frame that you want fixed right.
Good luck. NOW is the time to take care of the problem!

Robert Luland
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:56 pm
Bikes: 1922JD, 1937 ULH, 1946FL 1948FL, 1957FL, 1960FLH, 1965XLCH, 1995 FLHT
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Been thanked: 36 times
Contact:

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#14

Post by Robert Luland » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:04 am

Your a good man Tom! Job well done.

Panacea
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: one or two rear brake springs

#15

Post by Panacea » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:20 am

Tom, did you check out the front end with the head bar as well? I had my frame gone over by a shop my engine builder recommended, kinda' wish I would have checked it before assembling, there's no taking my hands off the handlebars, that's for sure...

Post Reply

Return to “Brakes”