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56 fl brake pedal

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Gregg
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56 fl brake pedal

#1

Post by Gregg » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:46 pm

Hello all,
New member as well as new pan owner- 56 FL, probably 95% stock down to the original bags, but unfortunately repainted back in the early 70's.
I have alot of questions, but I thought I'd start with something that might save my ass at some point.
The brake pedal does not stop (rest) vertically as I see on all other pans and knucks. It flops back aways, much further than I would think comfortable or safe, and more than once I have been searching for it coming to a light. I don't even want to think about an emergency stop.

The linkage was extended all the way out when I got it, still not enough, and I'm uncomfortable only catching minimal threads on the clevis' anyway when they were all out. There is no stock return spring on the pedal, which would just make the situation worse anyway. Lots of free play on the pedal, again, more than I'm comfortable with.

Cross tube seems snug, rear brake arm also. Linkages appear stock. Linkage in correct hole on brake pedal lever.

I'm taking it off the road for the winter (expecting another 5-6" of snow tonight) for a general overhaul, tires, wheel work, cleaning, etc. Does anyone have any idea where to zero in on this problem as I pull things apart? I've found nothing in the forums or anywhere in the manuals or web, so I'm really open for suggestions.
Thanks in advance. This is a great site-
Best
Gregg
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Robert Luland
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#2

Post by Robert Luland » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:21 pm

Sounds like the pivet pin which is riveted to the mounting plate is loose. This is not uncommon. You can ether resquash the rivet or tack weld it. If you choose to weld. Be carfull that the pivet is square to the plate. I got a small box of them here where they were welded at an angle. Hope this helps. Bob L

1950Panhead
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#3

Post by 1950Panhead » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:23 am

Gregg,
Pedal should be vertical or slightly forward, lever on left side of cross shaft rests on trans plate.
Check rear brake rod adjustment and brake shoes, replace spring if missing.
Jerry

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#4

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:00 pm

Welcome to the forum, Gregg. The shot below may be of some help and it's one from Chris Haynes' photo collection which I edited. It's the 1952 FL prototype but I think the brake setup remained the same through 1957. Eric
19318.jpg
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Gregg
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#5

Post by Gregg » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:45 pm

Thanks all
The setup is exactly like the pic, except for the return spring visible under the floorboard and my pedal is probably far enough left to line up with the rear tappet guide block.
Bob, when you say the pivet pin that is riveted to the mounting plate, do you mean the brake pedal mounting plate (b2 in the manual exploded pic) and the stud (or sleeve?)that shows coming off it? Des this have some sort of positive stop to keep the pedal from going back?
I'll be out pulling it off later today, then maybe it will be clear to me. I don't remember seeing anything riveted or welded when I pulled it apart a few weeks ago, but I will check more closely.
Thanks Gregg

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#6

Post by Bigincher » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:44 pm

What Bob is saying is that the pedal pivot pin is 'peened' or 'swaged' to the back of the backing plate, presumably in a large stamp mill. They do often come loose, and you'll find a lot of these with a little weld on the back as a repair, to tighten it up.
I've got a couple with a loose pin, and have been mulling over the best way to repair them without a weld-- possibly restamp them, but where the heck do you find a place that can do such work? Sorry, that's another subject....

Here's a pic of the back of the backing plate showing how the pivot pin is attached.
pivotpinback.jpg
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Robert Luland
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#7

Post by Robert Luland » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:27 am

Tom, I don't think this is the problem he's having but a while back Tom Faber told me they did that rivet with a 50 ton orbital riveter (What ever that is?). Obviously You going to have to make the tool. I would heat that sucker up cherry red and wack away with a lump hammer. The weld thing is probley a better bet, you just got to make sure the pin is square to the plate. No second chances here. Bob L

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#8

Post by Bigincher » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:11 am

Bob, I might've misread the question, but thanks for telling me about the 50-ton orbital riveter. I guess I'll have to make a large rivet set (or find one that size) and do as you suggest--- sounds reasonable to me.

Robert Luland
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#9

Post by Robert Luland » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:05 am

Tom, I got ten of these things laying around waiting for me to make the tool. Maybe the next couple of weeks, it’s going to take two tools. A base support that’s solid and a set, I would make the set a little under the size of the original. This will drive down the meat on the sides of existing dome. Simple tool steel and oil quench hardening should do it. Bob

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#10

Post by Bigincher » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:43 am

Bob, I'd really appreciate seeing that when you get it done, and fix your first few pivot pedals. Most all you find these days are loose....!

Gregg
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#11

Post by Gregg » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:29 am

I had a little time today to start exploring. Pivot pin is tight in the mount. I was able to extend the rear rod enough to hold the brake pedal in the correct position, but as a result, the brake engages way too late.
Jerry mentioned that the lever on left side of cross shaft rests on transmission plate. Does this provide the positive stop that I'm looking for (if it exists at all?)? It's not easy to see down there. I guess I'll be pulling the primary cover and back to take a look.
Gregg

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#12

Post by jibhead » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:39 pm

could you use the ,brake lock rod stop, adjusted so it bears against the rear foot board mounting to provide a method of postioning the pedal from retuning further than is comfortable or safe?

King
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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#13

Post by King » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:47 pm

This is something I have been dealing with ever since I got the Pan in ‘73. With everything well-adjusted my brake pedal would flop back past vertical and, as Bob recounted, be hard to find. I have corrected it by installing a weak spring off the pedal forward to the floor board stud. This keeps the pedal at a good forward angle without exerting enough pull to engage the brake. Pretty “riggy” solution but it works for me.

I also had the pivot problem, it was loose on the backing plate, but a couple weld spots corrected that. Another problem I encountered when I mounted a Bendix on my STD heads was that the air cleaner stuck out a couple of inches more than with the Linkert. This made working the brake pedal a bit awkward so I made an extender that moved the pedal pad out about two inches for better foot placement.

King

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#14

Post by RUBONE » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:38 pm

I have always had the best adjustment and pedal position by using the front rod adjustment to place the pedal in the right location and the rear rod adjustment to set the free play in the whole system. The return spring is a very necessary piece in the whole thing as it not only keeps the pedal in position, it applies tension to the whole system working against the rear brake springs to make it all work. Because of the pedal hole location it is crucial to get the front rod adjusted where the pedal does not fall back behind center in its relaxed position. Also, is your rear brake arm installed correctly? It can go on in reverse which pushes everything forward (and consequently the pedal back!) so it needs to be right as well. When the rear rod is adjusted it puts pressure against the front spring which tensions the system. The front spring is stronger than the brake shoe springs, allowing the rear rod to adjust the cam against the brake spring tension for actuation freeplay and the pedal sits where it is supposed to! Merely my experience, take it as you will.
Robbie

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Re: 56 fl brake pedal

#15

Post by DaveSwanson » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:32 am

Good info Robbie. I learned something today.

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