holy cow! check out my intake o rings!

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john HD
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holy cow! check out my intake o rings!

#1

Post by john HD » Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:37 pm

hey, in the process of getting my bike switched over to a linkert.

i pulled my old manifold off and found these! they are about 2 years old, no doubt in my mind the effect of today's gasoline! they were swollen to about double the original size and had nice little globs hanging in the airway.

really makes you wonder what they put in gas these days!

john
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#2

Post by Cotten » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:09 am

John!

I have witnessed similar or worse extrusion of the O-rings for decades.
Seasonal maintenance should always include their replacement, and a bubblecheck of course.

It is really bizarre when they form vanes like a Turbulator.

P4gas may well aggravate the problem, but extrusion is an inherent problem with any rubbery seal. My recent tests for swelling with straight gasoline only took longer.
Even Teflon over-extrudes when cinching up a "plumber's" design of manifold seal, so temperature and fastener compression are serious variables.

I look forward to testing Jame's viton offerings in this summer's P4gas, in spite of generic floatvalves claimed to be 'viton' failing in years past.

...Cotten

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#3

Post by john HD » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:21 am

cotten

in the past they always came out in pretty good shape, just kinda square. this is the first set i have had extrude little fingers into the manifold.

i am considering a set of viton o rings this time. the james set with insulator block and other assorted intake gaskets is around 20 bucks on flea bay.

what the heck, my 2000 chevy silverado is full of them in the fuel system.

worth a try unless some one has a better solution!

john

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#4

Post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:26 pm

Bought that same James kit this past summer....have not had any problems that I would need to remove and check...so far so good.....Skip

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#5

Post by Jack_Hester » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:56 am

There's a fellow in Hawaii that's offering replacement O-rings and bands, along with clamps. Pans and Shovels. Claims to be unaffected by any type fuel. I'm thinking he's doing this as a result of the chemical that they are passing off as fuel in that state. Somewhere else, I read that Hawaii has some really bad, and damaging fuel.

I found the link to the O-ring replacements:

http://www.icemc.com/010%20ICE%20Green%20Sleeves.htm

This link is in Florida. Could not find the original that lead me to this link. I'm almost sure that it was in Hawaii. Sometimes a failing memory makes for a better story. Anyway, these are the seals that I was thinking of.


Jack

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#6

Post by Cotten » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:11 am

Attached is a pic of a gummiworm o-ring from about a dozen years ago.

Although fuel was anything but great back then, I still attribute the extreme extrusion to excessive heat. Note that it had been tortured with "superclamps", which allowed the two outward sprues.

Common O-rings swell even in straight gasoline.
Overkill clamps (such as shown on the 'Green Sleeves" site) leave no where for the material to ooze except into the airflow. With the advent of a leak and a lean mixture, the temperatures soar, causing even greater extrusion.

There is no way to be certain that any material will survive the worst fuels without sticking it into a jarfull and watching.
Our hopes are that true viton will not triple in size like Buna-N nitrile o-rings.

...Cotten
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john HD
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#7

Post by john HD » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:14 pm

jack

i looked at the green sleeve set up, it kinda looked like a belt and suspenders approach to sealing the intake. not gonna say they are good or bad.

so in an attempt to keep my original sealing bands i ordered a set of the james viton o rings.

so, between cotten's new float and the viton 'rings i guess i'll be the guinea pig on a couple of new items this year!

john

ps, anyone know the correct orientation of stock intake bands? screw on the top or bottom?

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#8

Post by Cotten » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:23 pm

JohnHD!

Durable floats are not new...

I started cutting them in '02, but the material has been the automotive industry standard for decades.

....Cotten

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#9

Post by john HD » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:30 pm

cotten!

the ARE new to me! and linkerts for that matter!

i know you have been making them for quite a while now, as for the guinea pig comment that is in reference to my friends with old bikes who are very interested in trying your product out.

but of course, someone has to be the first in the bunch to try it!

the couple of long time harley guys i did show it to were impressed with the workmanship and packaging. not to mention the very light weight!

john

daddywags
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gaskets

#10

Post by daddywags » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:29 am

I have never had any come out like that. Maybe you are overtighting the clamp. Like someone else said, sometimes they come out kind of squared. Looks like the first picture is overtighting to me. Just my opinion, but I have only been riding Pans since 1980 :roll:

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#11

Post by Cotten » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:46 am

Daddywags!

We are not running 1980 gasoline.

....Cotten

daddywags
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panhead o rings

#12

Post by daddywags » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Yes, I know that this is not 1980, but still running pan now, and still do not get any orings like showing, still think first photo is overtighting, second one, well , I don't know, looks pretty bad

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#13

Post by john HD » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:18 pm

daddywags.

i hardly think i could have overtightened them all i have are the one screw tinfoil type bands. the ears would bend over before i could get them too tight.

in addition i was always able to rotate the manifold slightly with them secured.

i got the viton rings last week just need time to install...

john

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#14

Post by kevsett » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:28 pm

My o-rings look like this within 1 to 2 years of changing. I've got the linkert/intake off and was putting new o-rings and clamps (stock style) on in October/November when I got distracted on carb/intake flange gaskets/insulator. I'm inclined to order the James o-rings, clamps, and flange gaskets when I had just convinced myself to use some other flange gaskets and what may be a comprised design of the OEM style clamps.

I don't know about anyone else but changing o-rings that have turned to mush or gotten ate up on a yearly basis is getting real tiring. Not to mention that flange gaskets rarely come off intact so they have to be repurchased and replaced too.

My pan is very stock and very fun to ride but this one issue keeps coming up and sets back the ride time significantly; putting the FLSTC in first place.

To be sure of the James Gaskets part # is it JGI-27002-55? The web link I have is: http://www.jamesgaskets.com/parts/JGI-27002-55.htm

The fun never ends!

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#15

Post by Kuda » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:42 pm

kevsett wrote:To be sure of the James Gaskets part # is it JGI-27002-55?
That's the kit for a stock intake and carb (55-up) with the Viton seals. Or you can get just the O-rings with part number JGI-27060-55-V. I got mine here:

http://www.itwtrading.com/

Gentleman by the name of Mike Aldridge runs the place, he's an old bike nut too. But most importantly, he keeps over $100,000 of James inventory in stock so he usually has what I need in stock and ships it out the same day, flat $6 for priority mail. He's a good guy...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

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