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Intake manifold sealing

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tlgrooms
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Intake manifold sealing

#1

Post by tlgrooms » Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:56 pm

Replaced my Linkert a while back with an S&S Super E. Still using the original manifold with an adapter. Had been working OK but now my manifold is leaking on the front side. Anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to stop the leak? I have had someone tell me about switching to O rings and clamps. Is this the best route to go?

Thanks,
Tim



57Kicker
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#2

Post by 57Kicker » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:07 am

tlgrooms
I assume you mean the o-rings vs rubber band type?
O-ring and clamps work for me. Just make sure you also have the bracket that supports the carb and manifold. Its just a piece of flatstock bar with a hole at each end. One bolt on the bottom of the carb/manifold. The other to the top of the crank case.
You may have to alter the intake spigots on your heads for the o-ring to seat.

cheers!

tlgrooms
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#3

Post by tlgrooms » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:14 am

57kicker,

Thanks for the reponse. You wouldn't happen to have any part numbers for what I'm looking for would you? How about the rubber-band type you were mentioning? It is a 52 pan. What's involved in converting from the old style to either of the 2 you mentioned?

Thanks again,
Tim

Billy
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#4

Post by Billy » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:29 am

I strongly feel the BEST way to go is, see if Cotten would make you some PEEK intake ferrules, they don't wear out & are a BIG improvement over the O-rings, Bands & the Brass Seals they replace.
When you tired of the rest, use the BEST !!!
I have them on my intake, & Perfectly sealed first time.

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#5

Post by Cotten » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:50 pm

Removing and replacing inserts into the heads, as the O-ring conversion requires, is a very painstaking a critical operation. Plenty of Pan heads have been trashed by careless removal, and proper installation is probably the most difficult procedure in all of motor repair.
A brief description is at http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The end result of an O-ring conversion is that you have not only opened the double jeoapardy of nipple removal, you have spent a good chunk of cash for the Colony kit, manifold, and clamps all in order to depreciate the value of the heads, if not the entire machine. And O-rings in themselves are no guarantee of a perfect seal, nor a long-lived one.
Folks around the world are now cutting PEEK to make the dreaded 'plumber's manifold' into the most secure and easiest to install assembly possible. Ferrules made of PEEK do not deteriorate from heat and fuel as o-rings will over time.

tlgrooms
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#6

Post by tlgrooms » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:36 am

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Cotton, do you make and sell these peek fittings? If so I'd sure be interested in getting a set from you.

Thanks,
Tim

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#7

Post by Cotten » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:18 pm

Most manifolds are worn or out of round, so they must be re-cut before fitting. Even new Colony manifolds can be as much as .010" out!
If necessary, I charge $20 to re-cut the spigots, grind the flange, and dress & prep.
The price of PEEK has risen since http://virtualindian.org/9techpeek.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was published, so I now must charge $60 a pair to custom fit to the manifold.
Return shipping by insured USPS averages ~$8.50 in the continental USA.
I appreciate your interest, and thanks for letting me shamelessly spam atcha!

....Cotten
Liberty Motorcycle Specialties,
118 N. Washington Street
Lacon, Illinois, USA 61540
Phone: 309-246-3509
Email: Liberty@npoint.net
http://virtualindian.org/5deallib.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tlgrooms
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#8

Post by tlgrooms » Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:23 am

Post by tlgrooms on Oct 15, 2004, 7:23am

Cotton,

Thanks for the info. I'll definately let you do this for me soon as I'd like to get this fixed once and for all. All you need me to send is the manifold right? It looks to be in pretty good shape. Also, what do you prefer as far as payment goes? Is a check OK or money order?

Thanks,
Tim

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#9

Post by Cotten » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:19 pm

Yes, I must have the manifold in hand to assure a perfect fit.
A check after we know the return shipping is fine, although my friends outside of the USA often prefer PayPal.

CknDnr
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#10

Post by CknDnr » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:26 pm

Cotten
The nipples on my '59 have a few places where they have broken at the shoulder for the "O" ring. It is not bad enough that I cannot get them to seal with a bit of work, but would like a permenant fix. Would the PEEK inserts cure this problem without installing new nipples? If so, I will make arrangements to get my heads and intake to you. I am running a S&S "B" if it makes any difference.

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#11

Post by Cotten » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:05 pm

The PEEK fix is for manifolds with brass compression ferrules and "plumber's style" nuts.
Your o-ring lips should be welded and dressed (by a skilled pro). The sharp edges will eventually wear into your o-rings, thus making it a 'lit fuse'. Only welding will provide a sturdy enough support to properly compress the o-ring.
There are some hard plastic "repair rings" available for converting the the O-ring style to Chubble band-style, but they are also have their problems, not the least of which is the difficulty of installation on a Pan.
It should also be noted that often damage to O-ring lips is a result of attempting to install (or remove) heavy aircraft clamps that don't work any better anyway.

tlgrooms
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#12

Post by tlgrooms » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:41 pm

Cotton,

About to send manifold your way. Should I also send the nuts with it?

Many thanks,
Tim

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#13

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:48 am

Yes, since nuts, especially repops, can vary, I prefer to have yours to assure a perfect fit.
It also lets me screen out those that have been abused by chisles and cheater bars!
I return the assembly ready to install and leaktest.
I also encourage anyone with a lathe to investigate this operation for themselves, particularly those of you who service others vintage machines regularly.
Please post me direct, and I can make this easy for anyone. Well, sorta easy. Kinda easy. Really.
(The downside is that the price of PEEK just went up again: it must be related to oil prices.)

tlgrooms
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#14

Post by tlgrooms » Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:16 pm

Cotton,

Mailed the manifold and nuts Friday. You should have in a couple of days. The outside of the nuts are a little rough. Looks like a chisel or something similar was used at one time to get them off. Insides look good tho.

Thanks,
Tim

Cotten
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Re: Intake manifold sealing

#15

Post by Cotten » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:05 am

Tim!

Your nuts are knarly. I think they will service, but if you sense the torque-up tightens and loosens to the wrench slightly, it's because you had a minor bulge or two inside from the vicious punchmarks.
Just don't forget to re-snug them up after a few heat cycles, and if you ever get it real hot.

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