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Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

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old1955
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Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#1

Post by old1955 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:22 pm

G'day,
Could anyone tell me what would constitute a restrictive air flow though the element, and what
would you look for, symptoms wise ? I'm using a K&N in a standard panhead air cleaner.

I was using a S&S element, if you could call it that, it was a thin piece of foam around a wire frame,
as many would know, but they degrade very quickly. But I have noticed no difference at all.

Thanks
Pete



steinauge
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#2

Post by steinauge » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:59 pm

I have K&N elements on all my bikes,they work great! If you change elements and the new element is "too restrictive" I would think the first sign would be the engine running too rich-black smoke at idle etc.

Bigincher
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#3

Post by Bigincher » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:06 pm

I also run the K&N filters in all my bikes, and I am confident they pass enough air to satisfy the demands of the motors. If there is a restriction, it wouldn't be in the element, possibly in the filter housing itself.

Cotten
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#4

Post by Cotten » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:47 pm

My 86" '65 wouldn't even start with a paper filter.
And today's fuel additives eat foam.

A "Brillo" with MMO needs washed regularly, but it lasts forever.
Panheads were fantastic machines. Let them be Panheads.

...Cotten

john HD
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#5

Post by john HD » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:39 pm

i am running the "brillo pad" as cotten calls it soaked in 60W motor oil.

interestingly enough i tried to install a foam/wire element i had laying around. i found my bike would barely run and was way to rich with the standard settings. so i guess a foam or similar element is restrictive.

i figure if the brillo was good enough in '55 with mostly gravel roads back in the day it is good enough for today's modern paved roads. and it is infinitely reuseable.

to each his own.

john

rodklop
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#6

Post by rodklop » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:38 am

I too tried running a foam element on my Pan. Hard starting and it just never ran right. I then bought the K&N
conversion plate for the J-slot air cleaner . Have run it for 3 years, and couldn't be more pleased. ...Rod

Cotten
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#7

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:45 am

John HD said he "soaked" his copper mesh in oil.
And I said MMO. Same difference probably.

We all really know that oil doesn't soak into copper.

But it sticks.
It adheres.
It has an affinity.
It's damn hard to get back off.

Its a polarity electrical kind of thing.

And charged dust particles flying by get attracted and stick in the goo.

Only when you wash them out with solvent you quickly realize just how efficient this system works, over and over.

The people who invented these things weren't stupid.
But the public is always anxious to buy something else anyway, after seventy five years or so...

....Cotten

john HD
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#8

Post by john HD » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:45 am

rod,

are you running the K&N filter oiled or dry?

john

old1955
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#9

Post by old1955 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:56 am

G'day,
Yeah, I reckon "Won't start" is a noticeable type of a symptom. :D

Many thanks for your answers, with the techo side from Cotten and the irrefutable
logic from JohnHD and the good reports on the K&Ns too. What we first had when it departed
Milwaukee may have been and still could be the best.

Thanks again
Pete

kevsett
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Location: Missouri

Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#10

Post by kevsett » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:00 pm

Where would the best place be for a stock type copper mesh filter? Old Dude? Other? I went with a new style in the late 90's and always felt it wasn't the best choice for me. I think I'll go back the other way after this winter.

rodklop
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#11

Post by rodklop » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:53 pm

Hi John.....I use the K&N Recharge Kit. Has a cleaner that you spray on the element and rinse with water
from the inside out. Let it dry and spray the outside with oil that has a red tint, so you can see if you have good coverage. I've always used K&N filters for my cars, ect. and when someone came out with the adapter plate for the J slot HD air cleaner, thought I would try it.....Rod

NightShift
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#12

Post by NightShift » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:57 pm

rodklop wrote: and when someone came out with the adapter plate for the J slot HD air cleaner, thought I would try it.....Rod
It was Geoff Ringle.

'Spectful,

fourthgear
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#13

Post by fourthgear » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:06 pm

We have had this one before . If you believe that brillo pad type is better than modern filters and better for the motor (which are now worth a lot more $$ than in 1955 )than go for it . If you think that a brillo pad type filter eliment with oil dripping off of it is better for your motor than an eliment that can & does stop micron level particals from being sucked up in you high $$ motor ,I won't stop ya, its your $$.
To listen to all this and think some one believes that oil on that brillo pad type filter media is going to attract particules mile after mile is just wishful thinking or hard headed . It will probably reach full satuation point in about fifty miles , after that it be going right buy & into your motor ,unstoped buy a brillo pad type filter media encapsulated with whats left of the oil that did not get sucked into the motor after the first start up .
Now granted , you will get a lot of air thru it ,but as far as a filter ,yes it will stop the big stuff, its your call.

If your motor won't start with a modern type filter on it , you have other problems & it isn't the filter .

john HD
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#14

Post by john HD » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:19 am

fourthgear,

so i guess a velocity stack is out of the question then? just kidding!

my point about the mesh is that in a round 7 inch air cleaner with a foam element it does not work with a linkert with stock settings. i would venture to say that is why harley came up with the "ham can" air cleaner about the same exact time they went to foam for a element. larger air cleaner = more surface area = similar flow as a copper mesh setup. the '77/'78 and later "super huge" aircleaners were installed to reduce intake noise.

does a copper mesh filter as well as a modern element? probably not. however, as cotten pointed out and as i have seen first hand you would be suprized how much dirt comes out of one when you wash it out. it is substantial to say the least. oil bathed air cleaners were an industry and military standard for the majority of the last century for a reason. they work.

and to add to my point about todays roads i cannot honestly say i have been riding with a pack of bikes on a gravel road kicking up clouds of dust lately. so i am not that concerned about damaging my motor. i figure if the copper mesh works a bit better than the screen on my horn i am doing ok.

john

kevsett,

old dude has them, do not forget to get the spring to hold the cover in place if you order one. clete or bart will get you set up properly.

john

rod,

are you running your K&N in a stock aircleaner?

john

Bigincher
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Re: Air Cleaner element - Restricted Flow

#15

Post by Bigincher » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:56 am

This is an interesting conversation. Perhaps the slight 'burble' I am experiencing at a certain mow-to-mid range crossover speeds can be attributed to the K&N filter that I am running, which does indeed fit in the later model air cleaner with the center screw. The 'burble' I suspect is from a slightly high float level, compounded by the 1-1/8" venturi installed in the M74-B. I may change the air filter element back to the oiled-mesh style and see if there is any redeeming effect.

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