Gas Tank Sealer

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panz4ever
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Gas Tank Sealer

#1

Post by panz4ever » Sat May 09, 2009 12:16 am

I am in the process of getting a new set of 3.5 aftermarket gas tanks for my brother-in-laws 50 chopped pan. The tanks that are on there now have almost rusted through on the left tank. They were never sealed, had them on their since '86. They too were aftermarket tanks. My 65 tanks are OEM on my pan and show almost zero-point-nothing as far as rust. Not sure why but my question is this...what kind of sealer should/can I use that will not break down? Did a thread search and two types popped up, Kreem and a product by Bill Hirsch.

We are both in our young 60s and intend to ride as long as we can kick over the bikes. Don't want to be dealing w/ this sh*t when we are 80. His paint job is custom so my thought is to get the tanks, seal them (or not I guess), and then take his old tanks in to get the color matched (as faded as they are) as well as the design on the tanks.



lockdoc
Posts: 117
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Bikes: 65 Panhead in a 70 FLH frame
Location: Northeast PA, USA

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#2

Post by lockdoc » Sat May 09, 2009 12:32 am

I used Kreem in mine. It's a three part process. Clean 'em, etch 'em, seal 'em. Kind of a PITA but it appears to be a nice seal. Can't vouch for how long it lasts as I have only had it two years. No signs of any peeling though. Not bad concidering I used it on an old set of tanks that had some surface rust to start with. I originally sealed them because the rust would clog the filter. Filter is clear now.

Cotten
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#3

Post by Cotten » Sat May 09, 2009 2:36 am

Seal them now, regret it later.

....Cotten

VT

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#4

Post by VT » Sat May 09, 2009 3:59 pm

I think now is the time to call up Kreem® and get some scoop on the current fuel-resistance specs. on their 3-part product. Whur's my telephone? I'm on a mission. Outta my way.
http://www.kreemproducts.net/
Now waiting for a reply. We'll ride the Kreem problem to the ground - and jump up and down on the wheel rim until it stops moving.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Now that the tanks are dry you can see the metal has separated and there is a spot I could poke a hole in with the mere pressure of my finger.
Kreem won't add metal. Take that tank to a MiG specialist and get some metal filling done, then you'll be ready for Kreem® once we get the word from them.
I asked them about whether they changed their formula over the last 5 yrs. since I have a 5 yr. old 3-pk. on the shelf. I asked them about fuel compatibility over all 50 states.
I told them we have their product up for review here on hydra-glide.com/
I'll print their response.
Last edited by VT on Sat May 09, 2009 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

panz4ever
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#5

Post by panz4ever » Sat May 09, 2009 4:37 pm

Tom, guess my question is then what the heck do you do to protect the inside. The tanks have been going south for about the last 18 months and he finally had to stop riding it because we were draining the gas, cleaning the filter and washing the tanks out on a regular basis. Real PITA. Now that the tanks are dry you can see the metal has separated and there is a spot I could poke a hole in with the mere pressure of my finger. Just hoping for a way not to have to go through this again.

VT, please let us know what you find out. Thanks for the tenacity.

john HD
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Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#6

Post by john HD » Sat May 09, 2009 5:56 pm

panz,

i have seen cotten's photo of the failed linings, short of a reformulation by kreem i think the only answer would be to cut out the damaged areas and weld in new.

perhaps 70's era (read way less expensive) tanks could supply the donor material if it was in a curved area?

my next question would be how to replicate the factory phosphorus coating on the inside?

john

panz4ever
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#7

Post by panz4ever » Sat May 09, 2009 6:50 pm

john HD wrote:panz,

i have seen cotten's photo of the failed linings, short of a reformulation by kreem i think the only answer would be to cut out the damaged areas and weld in new.

perhaps 70's era (read way less expensive) tanks could supply the donor material if it was in a curved area?

my next question would be how to replicate the factory phosphorus coating on the inside?

john
Since i am not a welder, think it will be cheaper for me to get another set of aftermarket and make the others wall-art. Both tanks have rust, the left obviously a lot worse.

Anyone heard or tried tank sealer from Johnson Manufacturing. They have a web site and provide some decent info about their products. At any rate seems that Kreem is defintiely not the way to go...

VT

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#8

Post by VT » Sat May 09, 2009 7:22 pm

Rusted? You better show us first before you put them on a wall.
I got these tanks from McManus in South Carolina. They were in bad shape before he welded back on the mount tabs. There were holes in the bottom of both tanks. He Migged them with puddles. He bead blasted the inside. Nice and clean. Although in the process of pulling out these dents with a stud welder, I inadvertently loosened a mud-dobbers nest from somehwere inside. Plus, I caused some pits of my own removing the stud head from the surface. All were Mig filled. I'd try blasting your tanks first and see what's left of the metal. There might be more good metal than you think.
Image
Gnarly. Dent affects the script mount.
Image
Image

fourthgear
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Location: north florida

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#9

Post by fourthgear » Tue May 12, 2009 2:48 am

I have used the Kreem product for over twenty five years & never had a problem with it. If done right it will last as long as your bike. I can look any time I want at tanks I have done ,because I am still in contact with some of the owners and they are still riding them today with out tank problems . Of course they don't have twenty year old fuel to put in them ,so I must take for granted they are using todays fuels, just like me.
My 58 framed Pan has Kreem in it for six years now and it still looks like the day I put it in there ,nothing but white in there .It is all is the prep & they have got to be clean ,as with any product like Kreem, paints or any thing thats more than one proceedure to do.
I will give you one piece of advice ,if they have a good paint job on them & you don't intend on painting the tanks , don't use Kreem, one drop of any of the products in the steps to apply it and you will need repair work on the paint job.(or complete new paint job )
Larger tanks (split ,five gal. ) may require more than one kit. just my 2.

panz4ever
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#10

Post by panz4ever » Tue May 12, 2009 5:04 am

fourthgear wrote:I have used the Kreem product for over twenty five years & never had a problem with it. If done right it will last as long as your bike. I can look any time I want at tanks I have done ,because I am still in contact with some of the owners and they are still riding them today with out tank problems . Of course they don't have twenty year old fuel to put in them ,so I must take for granted they are using todays fuels, just like me.
My 58 framed Pan has Kreem in it for six years now and it still looks like the day I put it in there ,nothing but white in there .It is all is the prep & they have got to be clean ,as with any product like Kreem, paints or any thing thats more than one proceedure to do.
I will give you one piece of advice ,if they have a good paint job on them & you don't intend on painting the tanks , don't use Kreem, one drop of any of the products in the steps to apply it and you will need repair work on the paint job.(or complete new paint job )
Larger tanks (split ,five gal. ) may require more than one kit. just my 2.
Thanks fourthgear. The tanks will be new aftermarket. I am figuring on sealing them and THEN taking them to have them painted.

VT

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#11

Post by VT » Tue May 12, 2009 5:22 am

I didn't get an email from Kreem tech. I'll call them if I don't find answers on their FAQ site section, namely, have they changed their formula in the last 5 yrs.

kevsett
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:45 pm
Bikes: 1964 FL
Location: Missouri

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#12

Post by kevsett » Tue May 12, 2009 5:04 pm

The Kreem website gives their tank prep, mixing, handling, application, and cure requirements. It might be very legit but war stories do come up that Kreem will turn into a reincarnation of "The blob". After seeing their test analysis / case history document from 1981 with leaded gas it doesn't exactly encourage me. Where's the new data with modern gasolines? Their MSDS for the actual liner seems limiting (just shows MEK) with nothing to state what the elastomer resin actually is. But then there are thread posts saying it is possible to get a good application and longevity with modern fuels. I'd be willing to give it a try some day if the price isn't too excessive.

Note, at our paint manufacturing laboratories we use the following chemical resistance test:

A coated and fully cured metal panel in proper dry film thickness with the applied test chemical (in this case gasoline) on the surface and a glass disc (looks like a watch crystal) over the top provides suitable resistance results at 1, 3, and 7 days but can be left for longer durations depending on the demands.

NightShift
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Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#13

Post by NightShift » Tue May 12, 2009 5:47 pm

kevsett wrote:Note, at our paint manufacturing laboratories we use the following chemical resistance test:

A coated and fully cured metal panel in proper dry film thickness with the applied test chemical (in this case gasoline) on the surface and a glass disc (looks like a watch crystal) over the top provides suitable resistance results at 1, 3, and 7 days but can be left for longer durations depending on the demands.
But I like to keep my tanks full.
Even Rustyoelem would stop rust if ya only scare it with gas once.

Dunk it in a mason jar and watch it for months.
Then figure out how you woulda gotten it outta your painted tanks.

NightShiftRespectful,

Kuda
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#14

Post by Kuda » Tue May 12, 2009 6:23 pm

NightShift wrote:Dunk it in a mason jar and watch it for months.
Then figure out how you woulda gotten it outta your painted tanks.

NightShiftRespectful,
That's been my experience too. A friend called with dead shovel, turns out the screen was clogged. Once we got the petcock out it was obvious the kreem lining he put in was bad. He swears he did it by the book, tanks were new Mustang fatbobs. Took me three days to get all that crap out of there. Weird part was, and I'm not sure I can get it into understandable words, there were no "hot spots," or places where it adhered better than others other than the top of each tank. It was the same amount of effort to remove the lining below the top, just some spots were harder to get too (back seam, bottom corner seams, etc). That said to me that it was either completely improperly applied (statistically unlikely) or it just couldn't hold up to the gas.

Now on the other hand, I've done three sets of tanks so far with POR-15, and they all still look like new. Mind you, I KNOW those were done right... :mrgreen:

-Kuda
'49 panchop (currently running unlined re-pops)

panz4ever
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Re: Gas Tank Sealer

#15

Post by panz4ever » Tue May 12, 2009 10:53 pm

Kuda, just went to the website and they show a 3 step process. How much does it take to do a single set of 3.5 tanks?

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