Here she is,, my 58 Duo-Glide

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mogman
Posts: 103
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#16

Post by mogman » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:01 pm

Well that is that…….I dug up a cheap 3-15lb gauge and it does not move, even with a cold engine, I did check the gauge with compressed air and it does work, evidently it does make enough to extinguish the idiot light. and it defiantly has some piston noise now, I would have no confidence in this engine without a total tear down, this is ok really as this motor was build mostly of parts that came from a basket engine I bought without cases that all of the machine work had been done, fortunately the bike shop that did the machine work was in Houston just 4 hours down the road because the head work was crap, I had them re-do the heads but was not completely satisfied so I picked up another set of heads and had the worked over by KT cycle in Baytown, also the “basket” came with S&S wheels and rods, lighter than stock and I now have a OEM set, the “basket” also had sleeved jugs and I am not completely comfortable with that ether.



mogman
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#17

Post by mogman » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:10 pm

Actually I need to retract an earlier statement……… I AM A DUMB ASS!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

DuoDave
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lifters

#18

Post by DuoDave » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:48 pm

Don't be too hard on yourself. You can only go by your best judgement. You checked the various parts and they looked okay to you. Pans don't need much oil pressure, if there is enough to keep the oil pressure light off, you would think it would be okay. The big clue was the noisy lifters. As Cotten has said in the past, your valve gear will let you know if you have an oil problem. Take your oil tank cap off and fire the bike up. You may not have much pressure, but you should at least have a healthy return flow into the tank. I would be tempted to rebuild the oil pump or fit a new one and see how it goes before getting into a major tear down. If that cures your noisy lifters, you will feel much more enthusiastic about any other work that needs to be done. My bet is that you won't need to touch the bottom end and maybe the top end will be okay as well. You already know how good it feels to ride your pan, once she is running smooth, it will be brilliant!

mogman
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#19

Post by mogman » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:22 am

WELL I went out and started to pull the oil pump, I drained the tank and when I removed the oil feed line guess what, that’s right no oil came out, I mean there should have been a line full, put the air hose to it and sure enough SOMETHING had blocked it almost completely, a big bang and it was clear, blowing oil and whatever it was all over the shop as I had the line loose from the tank. Put it back together tossed in a couple quarts of 60W and voila it immediately wrapped that 15lb gauge around to the peg and stayed there,,,, I guess I am just knida a dumb ass. as it did have great oil pressure when built,, to bad it has allot of piston clanging going on, defiantly makes a big difference when you roll the timing back

fourthgear
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#20

Post by fourthgear » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:03 pm

mogman
You said the oil tank is not as hot as the motor, It should run a little cooler , but it still should be around 200 dagrees F. or some where around there , all motors are diff.. As has been said ,are you getting good flow back to the tank and when you rev. it does the oil flow incress? That 0-15 lb. gage will probably break the bordon tube or seriously bend the linkage when you fire the motor up with it on there cold. I have an S&S oil pump on mine and the case has been updated to Shovel spec.s and my gage ( 0- 60 )goes almost up to 60 # when I rev. it cold and @ idle cold about 42# . When warm @ idle it shows "0 " and about 12-15 # @ 50 mph. when @ running temp..
Its all about flow for oil in the old motors , I do not trust any of the older type hyd. lifter systems , I always run solids , some will say that hyd.s will tell you if oil flow is low and your ind. light might work. Yours may be telling you something about oil flow and then maybe not.( are you adj. the hyd. lifters properly ?)
You also say you had a oil line pluged, could be some one liked alot of RTV stuff on the gaskets , seen alot of that and some times that stuff goes around and around and then settles some where to give you trouble.Since you are not seeing it in the normal places ( tappet screen,if ya have one and the oil filter )where it shows up , that may not be the problem.
Your oil level in the tank when warm should not be over the breather line in the tank when bike is upright or you could be building pressure and not letting every thing breath . Since the breather line and return line are on the same level you should be able to see the return going into the tank ( a good flash light will help.

DuoDave
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:45 pm

oil line

#21

Post by DuoDave » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:49 am

Mogman - Bad news if you have engine damage, but at least you now know what the problem was. You may have already done so, but it would have been a good idea to have a good look in the oil tank while it was empty. It's possible there could be some sludge collected in the bottom which could have blocked your feed line. I would hate to think of it happening again.

Cotten
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#22

Post by Cotten » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:01 pm

I once developed a similar tappetnoise problem on one of my 65's.
It drove me nuts, coming and going without rhyme or reason. So, as I finally was resigned to tear deep into the rat, I drained the oiltank to de-sludge first.

To my horror, I found a plastic oilbottle cap over the feedline nipple.

Problem solved.

I am of course ashamed of my carelessness, but SO greatful that the hydraulics served as an alarm; The oil light never flickered.
If it had happened to my stroked '65 with solids, the crank would have starved, possibly locking up without warning.

....Cotten

PS:"A"-grinds have their hydraulic problem at hot idle, not at roadspeed.

mogman
Posts: 103
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Apology to my Panhead

#23

Post by mogman » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:11 pm

It took me months to build my Panhead engine, but I missed IT, I flushed the oil tank and all the lines, I honed every gasket surface, hand lapped the pinion bearing, checked the clearance of every bushing, I obsessed about every detail, but I missed IT.
But the reason IT bit me in the as was arrogance plain and simple. When I built the engine I installed a solid lifter kit but was not happy about the tic-tic when warmed up. I had no idea IT was waiting. When I decided to install hydro lifters the problems with them started immediately IT had already started to do its evil deed, I had installed an oil pressure gauge at first but when it started leaking I just removed it as I had great oil pressure and surly there was no IT waiting to bite me in the ass. When the lifters repeatedly tried to warn me that there was an oiling issue I ignored it because there could be no IT as I had covered all the bases, arrogance plain and simple. I built my first engine when I was 13 years old and it ran strong until it left our family 15 years later, sense then I have built scores of engines, Cats, Detroits,Mercedes, all of the domestic brands and most imports, lots of rice burners, and a couple Evo’s OK so this was my first Panhead it’s just an engine like any other and after all in 35 years of engine building I have had only two other failures, the first was my sisters VW I rebuilt when I was 15, I installed one of the main bearings incorrectly so the oil galley hole in the block did not line up with the hole in the bearing, the second was a M422A1 Mighty Mite in which a critical modification to install an O ring was not in the manual, arrogance plain and simple.
I have owned dozens of motorcycles over the years some pretty strange like the Puch “twingle” like the song says I rode them and told them goodbye. BUT this Panhead was different I instantly became attached to it like nothing I have ever owned, not just because we were both born within a month of each other but it is an amazing piece of machinery.
It’s form is beautiful, someone actually took into consideration what it would LOOK like when finished.
What IT was I will probably never know, IT was ejected at a high velocity across the shop out of the oil feed line from the tank to the oil pump, maybe a piece of silicon sealer left by a previous owner, a piece of the foil seal from a quart of oil? In any case because I was so arrogant about my abilities I have seriously wounded the only possession I have that I can honestly say will never leave me until the day I die.
I fired her up one last time before draining the oil and putting her on the lift to remove the engine and as it sat there with the pistons hammering and a valve train noise that is totally unfamiliar, I am man enough to admit I got tears in my eyes, not because of the time or money this will cost me but because I have betrayed such a noble machine.
I hope a large dose of humility will keep IT from ever biting me in the ass again!!!

fourthgear
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#24

Post by fourthgear » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:09 pm

mogman
Don't be too hard on your self , some things just happen, even to the best of us. The law of averages just got stacked agenst you on this one . Were you getting oil return on that last start? You will be suprised at how much these motors will take, let us know what ya find.

mogman
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:29 pm

Damage

#25

Post by mogman » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:28 am

Well I got around to tearing the engine down and was very lucky, only one piston and cylinder had any damage, even the rockers looked fine(I thought they would be the first to go), the OEM lower end,balanced with new pistons and cylinders(.070 over) are about ready and the frame goes to the powder coat shop tomarrow. I also will be shipping a ton of "stuff" to the cad/park shop this week. The rims/hubs and replated spokes are ready to be shipped to the wheel dude, all in all things are going well. I hope to get started to reassemble it in about a month or so.......
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VT

#26

Post by VT » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:50 am

That's some piston scuff :shock:
Panheads are great motorcycles.

fourthgear
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#27

Post by fourthgear » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:01 pm

WOW , seems you caught it just in time. Strange , just the one piston, I see that you are taking good advantage of the down time with the other parts.

duoglide58
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#28

Post by duoglide58 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:40 pm

I had the same huniliating experience. A couple of years ago, my bike had started to have an intermittent oil pressure problem that eventually became less intermittant. I had drained and flushed the tank, fished around the tank w/ wires and magnets, blew the lines clear, changed springs balls and plungers in the pump, changed out the S&S oil pump with the old stock pump. I finally figured it must have needed rebuilding because by god I could not solve it myself. Had the engine rebuilt and opted for new STD heads while I was at it. After 150 miles, the problem reappeared. Took it to the shop that did the motor rebuild and after buying another oil pump, it still had the problem. They punted. I got frustrated and took it to another shop. After $450 of labor, they found a piece of masking tape in the oil tank. :oops:
That tape likely had been in ther for 6 years when I last painted the bike. It took a 2 or 3 years before it reared its ugly head and bit me. I had done everything but pull the tank and turn it upside down. Next time I'll know. The sad thing is, I rebuilt an engine that probably did not need a rebuild.
Doug

58flh
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Re: Here she is,, my 58 Duo-Glide

#29

Post by 58flh » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:21 pm

Mogman----AS somebody already said(dont gey down hard on yourself!)-SH-T happens!. I know your a good mechanic/ with attention to detail!,but hey WHO the hell saw that one coming!. You figure you flush the oilbag out good with kero or whatever & your engine is at the eat off it stage/ then some dunbass plug in the oilfeed line causes all this havoc!!!.---MAN I STILL think YOU are a LUCKY MAN!---could of been ALOT worse!>(& I know you know it!)--HEY MOGMAN----GOOD-LUCK with that NICE BUILD you got there! & THE spraybomb paintjob LOOKS GREAT!---Atleast now you can keep it in 4th wideopen & ENJOY those bursts of speed!-Best of luck!.----RICHIE :twisted:

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