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Did Harley "re-tourque" pan motors?

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Panacea
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Did Harley "re-tourque" pan motors?

#1

Post by Panacea » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:56 am

How did Harley deal with the "re-tourque" of sold motorcycles? I can't believe everybody brought them back right away to have it done. Or perhaps they used a higher tourque on the "new" parts? Mike



Robert Luland
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#2

Post by Robert Luland » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:41 am

Are you out of your mine? The factory did the least amount of work but nothing next to the dealer. Retorque! What the hell is that. Son stop reading them dirty books!

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#3

Post by Panacea » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:59 am

I know from experience how long I'd get by without re-tightening head and base fasteners, buyers must have been more "hands on" in the old days...and yes, I am out of my mine!

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#4

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:58 am

Good question Mike, I've always wondered that myself.

I think that owners were a lot more "hands on" back then. Very few things were maintenance free and it was left to the operator to do his own stuff. I guess they just ran the checklists in the Rider's Manual and performed all the recommended user maintenance tasks.

I agree with Robert, the factory did the bare essentials to get the bikes out the door and the dealers probably didn't check every nut and bolt when the bikes came in for service.

What really amazes me is that they had the machines engineered well enough with hardware that was available at the time to keep everything from coming loose and falling off before LOCTITE was invented.

But I still wonder, if an owner took a bike back to the dealer in 1949 for the 500 mile service, did they re-torque the heads?

mike

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#5

Post by fourthgear » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:03 pm

Kinda make ya wounder if they test ran them all at the factory and did some adj. before they went out to the dealers .

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#6

Post by Cotten » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:15 pm

I have no answer, but only a clue:

OEM vintage gaskets were not as compressible and spongy as modern products.

....Cotten

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#7

Post by VPH-D » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:49 pm

I,m not sure about Pans, but in the 70s and 80s, we ran every bike prior to delivery, and re-torqued the heads and barrels.
VPH-D

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#8

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:56 pm

VPH-D

During the 70's & 80's, the dark ages of AMF, I imagine that it was cheap insurance for the dealers to inspect and retighten everything before the customer took the bike home. Do you have any recollection of how much was off-spec on those bikes when they arrived from the factory?

mike

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#9

Post by panz4ever » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:17 am

Well they may have done an inspection and retightened some things but they sure phucked up on my 1970 FLH. Pop had a brand new one waiting for me when I cam home in 11/69. Paid cash for the bike. Two rebuilds later we determined the flywheels were out of balance and caused the front left engine case motor mount to break. Took it to the dealer (Sam Arena in San Jose) and they looked at me as if I was smoking 'crack'. Sold it and bought a 65 pan that I have owned since then.

Swore off AMF shovels until I found a 76 Bi-Centennial in 11/07 with just over 5k on her. I now split my time between the 76 and the 65. The 76 is a sweet ride and I gotta say that, so far, she has disproved the myth of AMF years being less than desireable.

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#10

Post by VPH-D » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:40 pm

I would speculate that I did more warranty paperwork in any given month, than they do in 2 years now a days.

All the first generation electronic ignition systems failed. During the 75th
Anniversary Ride to Milwaukee, we had to borrow a new ignition plate from a floor model for one of the factory bikes that had failed.

Almost all the valves seized up on Big Twins in 79.

Major problems with the banana calipers, dragging, vaporizing brake fluid, scored rotors.

Lousey paint, chrome

Anything FLT

A litany of sorrow, so to speak. oh, well
VPH-D

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#11

Post by fourthgear » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:53 pm

Man, VPH-D, you bring back memory's . How many of those new electronic igns. I replaced back to points is just mind boggling and the dreaded disc brakes , they were OK if you didn't use them too much. We came up with or own form of anti rattle spring set up long before they were common on the market , no one could stand that rattling.

VT

#12

Post by VT » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:56 pm

You don't need to re-torque head bolts after they have been torqued to 65 ft. lbs. If you did re-torque the head bolts, you'd need to loosen the top motor mount and remove the headers. Reason being, that if you don't, you'll be pulling against the fixed position of the heads. If the head won't move down towards the cylinder because of the top mount being tightened to the frame, then the weakest link of the assembly are the Panhead threaded inserts. Clymers Panhead book has pics of pulled inserts, they claim were "over-torqued". Ou contrare mon fere :!: Some of the inserts pulled because a well meaning individual re-torqued the head bolts without loosening up the fasteners and headers that would prevent the head from moving downward.

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#13

Post by captainharley » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:57 pm

I heard a story once back in the day about a "booby-trap" in a mid '70s
E-glide straight from the factory. When they uncrated the bike they
found a note that said something like; "you ride this bike and it will blow
up!". Well, the dealer tore the bike competely a part. When they got
to the tranny they found a wrench inside of it. Don't know how true the
story was but I wouldn't have doubted it. :shock:

AMF/Ride Safe :wink:

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#14

Post by VPH-D » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:02 pm

There were cases of sabotage on new bikes, mostly in the early 70s. The poor quality control was mainly due to increased production numbers forced by AMF. I own a 73 FX bought in about 77-78, the bike was wrecked and had sat for 1-2 years. At 3500 miles, the bottom end was shot due to improper hardening on the crank pin and shafts. This was typical AMF quality. I still own this bike, it has been 86" since 1980, and has been very reliable.
I think cone Shovels are a good starting point nowadays, and they are relatively cheap.
VPH-D

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#15

Post by fourthgear » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:02 am

I don't think it has any thing to do with moving any thing down ,up , side to side , its just the bolts that are re-torqued , the gasket(s) is already compressed and the head is not going down any more , besides , your are just checking the head bolt torque , you should not have to tighten them and if you did , they certainly would move much. At least nothing I would think would put any strain on any thing that's already tight. If they moved or tightened enough to put a strain on frame or other fasteners , ya didn't do some thing right to begin with. Just my two.

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