Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

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Singer
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:32 pm

Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#1

Post by Singer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:15 am

Hi there

Im a big Panhead fan, just loves the look of that sweet engine…But I have received a very good offer on a 58 duo with a 69 early engine, but I don’t know anything about the Early engine
Now my questions are:

1. how much difference are there between the Panhead, and the EarlyShovel, in terms of reliability, function, ect..?
2. is it possible to change the Shovel rocker covers to Pan covers, to get the right look. (I have seen it done on an EVO)

I’m really in a haze here, should I go for a regular Pan, or regular Shovel rather than the EarlyShovel.
Please Help

Thanxxx



caschnd1
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:45 pm
Bikes: 1949 FL Chopper

Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#2

Post by caschnd1 » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:31 am

You can't put pan covers on a shovel. I haven't seen the "fake" pan covers like they make for Evo engines either. If you want a panhead, I recommend you go with the '58 rather then trying to change a shovel into a panhead.
I gotta admit, when ever I see one of those "Evo pans" I just have to roll my eyes. I'm sort of a sarcastic unforgiving bastard that way. Also makes me a panhead snob I guess.
But nothing to be ashamed about riding a shovel. So if you prefer the newer bike, go for it!
Maybe someone else here can tell you the mechanical specifics if you want to put a panhead topend on that shovel. I've never done it so I'm not sure what would need to be replaced. I suspect if you want to use OEM panhead castings, you'd have to swap jugs and heads at a minimum. I understand that you can use STD panheads w/ shovel jugs so that might be an easier route to go.

Singer
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:32 pm

Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#3

Post by Singer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:23 am

Post by singer

Thanx man...

Actually it's a 58 frame ect.. where they slaped a 69 ES engine on...
Well I got an offer on a 59 Pan as well, and I'll proberly go for that instead..

Billy
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#4

Post by Billy » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:03 am

Singer-
Basically a 1966-69 Shovel is still running a Pan(style) bottom end.
These are very desirable shovels !! Much more than "cone shovels" 1970+ newer
Depends what you want. I would NOT convert a true '69 slab-side shovel' to Pan tops.. Lose all it's value.
A true Pan is Tits though. You gotta make the call.

PS: Flatheads are where it's really at..

caschnd1
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Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#5

Post by caschnd1 » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:21 am

Billy,

You prefer the WL or UL flatheads? I'd like to do a flathead for my next project. The local H-D dealer has a flathead (WL) servicar, chopped, springer front end, wild paint. They have a price tag of $36,999 on it!! HA! Thought I'd fall over laughing when I saw that price. Is it just me or do they really demand that kind of price. Haven't really started my price research yet.

-Craig

Billy
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Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#6

Post by Billy » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:34 am

Craig-
I think that your local HD Boutique is a bit optimistic w/ that price. Especially 'chopped'...Still "rare years" & "prime original examples" are getting $15,000.- $20,000. on fleebay. (I have seen this)
Actually I like all old HD's, But I am currently also enjoying my recently finished Police Servi-car, Rare year only 425 made.
Of course I did modify the motor a bit. ;) I Bored & Stroked it out, & am running Leineweber cams, & about 59.4 other internal mods.. ;D To increase the 'fun factor'....
I'm digging it.... 'G' 45 's are for Servi's, WL= solo's
My first HD, 35 years ago was a '47 chopped servi. No rake, looked like it was going uphill. ;D
That was a fun 'Parts Chaser" This current one is my 2nd Servi, & a fine 'Parts Chaser' & then some !! This one looks "stock" = aka 'sleeper' 8-)
As far as values, I see the old Iron increasing in value, no matter what HD it is...But parts availability is there.
Sometimes you may have to look a little harder.....

caschnd1
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Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#7

Post by caschnd1 » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:08 pm

Billy,

You pointed out that 'G' is servi-car and 'WL' is solo. Is there a difference in the motors used on the servi-car and the solo?
I was thinkin' the same thing you pointed out. A servi-car would make an awesome parts runner. I haven't owned a car in years and sometimes I come home from the shop lookin' like some sort of carpet bagger with tires, boxes, etc. strapped to the back of my bike. A servi-car would allow me to come and go with a little more ... style. Not to mention it would be fun too! :)

-Craig

Billy
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Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#8

Post by Billy » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:56 pm

caschnd-

The G=Servi 45's & WL 45's are essentially the same motors. Servi's came stock w/lower comp. ratio.
Much smaller intake ID & a few other subtle differences.
There were also minor improvements/changes along the way.
Servi's were made from 1932-1973
W/WL/WLA/WLC & MANY more 'solo type' 45's were made till early 1952.
Some people buy a basket & build a woodie box on back, p/up truck style. (Costs less, & haul anything)

But understand a "stock Servi" is no Ball of fire...
But Improvements/mods can change that .. ;D
I just dig them. ;D You rarely see one anymore.
They blow people's minds when out riding!!

Also the boxes are great advertising space, this was very common..

58flh
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Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#9

Post by 58flh » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:22 pm

The Shovel bottom-end is the same cases as 1958 till they changed to that dumb cone-looking thing. You can put a panhead set-up on the cases you have mentioned--but my reasoning is why. the motor is making more power & running more efficient with the shovel-barrels & heads. Remember shovels= bigger valves-longer duration+higher-lift cam.In other words leave it a shovel--& go check on some of the other gems out there jusdt waiting to be redone!(keep it upright in 4th & wide-open & enjoy that bike!)58flh

58flh
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Location: NEW JERSEY

Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#10

Post by 58flh » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:34 pm

caschnd1 wrote:Billy,

You prefer the WL or UL flatheads? I'd like to do a flathead for my next project. The local H-D dealer has a flathead (WL) servicar, chopped, springer front end, wild paint. They have a price tag of $36,999 on it!! HA! Thought I'd fall over laughing when I saw that price. Is it just me or do they really demand that kind of price. Haven't really started my price research yet.

-Craig
Billy you will find all-sorts of extreme $$$out there, especialy at a dealer! Keep searching you will find your holy-graIL! mY BUDDY GOT A 52 FLATTIE 45 ALL original cond. even the marred-up paint which was red & birch-white-hell i think the tires were even original!---he calls me 911 check this 45 out! So I show-up we went over with a fine tooth comb, the older gentleman was more than willing. The olny thing not stock was a harly-sticker over the coil-cover THATS IT!. This was 4yrs. ago & the selling price was $4000.00 So there out there just have to put feelers out & the HUNT is on!.(Good-Luck)58flh

kitabel
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Location: New York

Re: Early Shovel engine vs. Panhead engine

#11

Post by kitabel » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:08 pm

The G and W motors are identical, 1" Linkert, iron heads etc.
WL motors have 1-1/4" carbs, higher compression, aluminum heads 1940-52.

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