Strokin it........

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mbskeam
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Strokin it........

#1

Post by mbskeam » Thu May 25, 2006 9:31 pm

well, it seems that the time has come to get a new set of flywheels, but since I got the need for speed I 'm going a bit bigger, from a 74 to a 88. it will be a 4-5/8 stroke. wheels from T&O.
it seams that my old wheels will not stay true, looking at the contact pattern of the taper on the pinion side it does not seat very well any more.
when I took it apart all was tight and looked okay but the wheels had.015 run out on the pinion.
when they went in it had less than .001, pinion side and about zero on the sprocket side, this after 4000 miles,
so what would let a wheel set do this? and this is the 2nd time its done this, and that is what I now think cracked my rt case and let the cam bearing spin, a few years ago.
the shop I had do this 75% of there work is pans and older so I don't think that this is the problem.....
might be I cant control my right hand
I did catch this in time because when I looked at the female rod races they had this light blue tint to them about 1/2 way around....
and to think I was just going in to look at the case deck angle issue I was having (not 45 deg. but 45-1/2) done way before I got the bike.
went to put the wheels back in Friday and when the cam cover went on, lock up city, out came the dial ind. .015.... POINT ZERO ONE FIVE???????? no that cant be......
what the F *^%&$$%^%%^$&$&$&$&$$#)T@##$@$% I think to myself
and at 11:30 at night the tools fell to the bench, off to bed I went....
need less to say I missed the bike show that I go to every year.

it was a long weekend........

mbskeam



Billy
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Re: Strokin it........

#2

Post by Billy » Fri May 26, 2006 5:18 am

Mike-

Sounds like that could have cracked yer cases way back..
I used 4 5/8" stroke on my former '63 Pan w/+ .070 bore..& a "B" grind
Power on tap!!!! You'll love it !! Whole new world.. :o
No Replacement for Displacement !!!!!

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#3

Post by mbskeam » Fri May 26, 2006 1:29 pm

Sleeper.......
so what did you use for pistons?
called KB and they done make stroker pistons in 3.5, only in 3-5/8
I keep seeing the B grind come up as a cam for this, I have the A and cash is a bit low so that is what I will try, any thoughts,
unless you have a good CHEAP use B floating around

"Mr can you help a guy out with a bit of cam" LOL

mbskeam

Billy
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Re: Strokin it........

#4

Post by Billy » Fri May 26, 2006 3:31 pm

I used S&S wheels, & then-(brain-fart) ::) IIRC Wiseco's
Ask T&O they should know,
No "B" floaters, "A" will still be Sweet !!
I'm out the door till next weekend,
ROAD-TRIP

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#5

Post by mbskeam » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:06 am

well I got the wheels, every thing looks good.
checked the run out,after being shipped across the US, well the pinion has .0004 at the wheel and .0000 at the end, the sprocket shaft has .0006 at the wheel and the same at the end, will start to build this thing this weekend.

mbskeam

Cotten
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Re: Strokin it........

#6

Post by Cotten » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:00 pm

Mike!

Don't throw your old wheels away: http://virtualindian.org/10techfly.htm

....Cotten

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#7

Post by mbskeam » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:10 am

things to do to your cyl. when you stroke it.
if you don't the oil rings will go past the oil return hole in the cyl. it may smoke some if you dont put a sleeve in and put a new hole below the oil control ring.


Image
new hole in cyl. per S&S instructions

Image
sleeve made on lathe

Image
case rework on oil return galley

mbskeam

Cotten.......
I dont throw anything away.............


here are some pics of the T&O flywheels......

Image
Image

I did call them and ask them about the nut keepers, they said set up this way is no problem

mbskeam

Panacea
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Re: Strokin it........

#8

Post by Panacea » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:35 am

mbskeam, Have you ever heard of a KR crank pin? There are two oil holes instead of three. My machinist tells me that by re-locating the oil supply out from under the rollers to the retainer edge,there is less roller slide. Sounds kinda far fetched to me but I'm no expert...MW

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#9

Post by mbskeam » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:33 am

no I have not, funny that you should ask. I was reading about this

mbskeam

Jack_Hester
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Re: Strokin it........

#10

Post by Jack_Hester » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:35 am

I order the 2-hole crankpins made by Eastern. They also advertise their hardness on these pins as being 0.120", as compared to 0.060" on 1 and 3-hole pins. 0.060" is plenty deep, for hardfacing. I don't know why they chose to go with 0.120" on the 2-hole. But, I'm all for it. Anyway, they offer their 2-hole in 45's and Big Twin sizes.

Jack

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#11

Post by mbskeam » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:58 am

well I think I know what made the old flywheels go outa true.
it seems the taper bore on the pinion side is to big, as this lets the pinion go to deep, the nut would hit the shoulder of the shaft, not allowing the nut to pull it tight into the taper. it would seam tight but not as tight into the taper as it should be.
I found this out when I took a old shaft and stuck it into the wheel trying to see what position the oil feed galley for the rods would be at, so that I could lube the oil system with a oil gun. this worked out well, as I was able to pre lube it before starting.
been taking my time on setting up the end plays in the cam chest area, got them all in the middle of the specs.
was thinking that these engines would run okay even if all the end plays and bore sizes wear twice as big as spec......
except the flywheels of course....LOL

mbskeam

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#12

Post by mbskeam » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:22 am

found a cool comp. ratio calculator: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

Camshaft, Rod Length, Boost and Altitude Correction to Compression

Your engine summary is as follows: Bore 3.5 inches,stroke 4.625 inches, rod c-c length 7.470 inches, with a static compression ratio of 9.48 :1.
Your camshaft specifications call for an inlet valve closing of 43 degrees ABDC (after bottom dead center).
Your chamber volume is 85.99 cc's. With this camshaft your dynamic, or effective stroke is 4.17 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.65 :1 corrected for cam timing, altitude, and rod length. Your dynamic cranking pressure, corrected for cam timing, rod length and altitude is 175.86 PSI. Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and 0 PSI is 8.65 :1.

Knowledge is power.

old build with KB pistons

Camshaft, Rod Length, Boost and Altitude Correction to Compression
Your engine summary is as follows: Bore 3.5 inches, stroke 3.968 inches, rod c-c length 7.470 inches, with a static compression ratio of 9.94 :1.
Your camshaft specifications call for an inlet valve closing of 43 degrees ABDC (after bottom dead center).
Your chamber volume is 69.98 cc's. With this camshaft your dynamic, or effective stroke is 3.56 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.92 :1 corrected for cam timing, altitude, and rod length. Your dynamic cranking pressure, corrected for cam timing, rod length and altitude is 182.94 PSI. Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and 0 PSI is 8.92 :1.

Knowledge is power.

I know that this is a real accurate program because it got within .1cc I got by bolting on a head at TDC, I found it to be 86cc. since the program did not ask me for this info , but told me I can only think that it is right on. some other compression calculators kinda vary. I also did it by math and get the same numbers

a side note about KB pistons .......http://kb-silvolite.com/cycle.php?actio ... ls&P_id=15

these are the ones that most pan guys are using.......

CC'd the heads and then I go and CC the pistons 1" down the cyl. so how does KB come up with a 57CC dome when I only come up with about 33CC:

3.5 bore, piston at 1" down it took 125cc to fill. that is 7.625 CI, then I figure the volume without piston 9.621 CI. 9.621-7.625=1.996/.0610=32.72CC
so what am I missing? are they using the head of the piston all the way to the 1st ring? or am I missing the secret number?
my S&S pistons come up with a 28CC head.

did come up with 120CC's on the STD heads,

mbskeam

mbskeam
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Re: Strokin it........

#13

Post by mbskeam » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:53 am

at 4:00PM it's....IT'S..... alive
got it going on the second kick. no leaks, oil is comin back to the tank, got it up to temp,now its coolin off for 2 more cycles, then its dump the oil,retourqe and take it for a ride..........finnaly

mbskeam

windweaver
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Re: Strokin it........

#14

Post by windweaver » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:07 am

congratulations hope you get many trouble free miles of good riding WW

Panacea
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Re: Strokin it........

#15

Post by Panacea » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:19 am

I'm jealous as hell, still trying to get my frame and sheet metal done. also spun a main race with the boring bar so we're lookin' for an oversized one...Drat..MW

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