Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

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xnoahx
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Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#1

Post by xnoahx » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:02 pm

I am thinking about building a bobber and I am looking for input on an engine. Price and reliability are important. Im not looking for a huge, high horsepower engine but I dont want a dud either. Basicly, just trying to see what I can expect to pay for a used engine. Doesnt really matter what type of HD engine it is to me either. Just want something that isnt going to cost an arm and a leg and will be dependable and servicable.



1950bobber

Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#2

Post by 1950bobber » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:08 pm

Hello xnoahx....The cheapest big twin I believe is a Shovelhead, expect to pay around $2000 to 3500 for it depending on what comes with it (Alternator/stator, oil pump, carb, title) and I think the next least expensive motor is an older Evo. Pan replica's go upward of $4000. Tranny's go $650 to $900. OEM Swingarm frames go $500 to $1000, again depending on age/condition/paint condition or with/without title....my suggestion would be a Kraft Tech 30 degree rake, no stretch rigid and made for the stock 16 X 5.00 tire....that should run 'ya new around $750. When buying tanks, buy ONLY OEM Shovelhead years for around $80-$125, choose with or without emblem mounts...the older Shovelhead tanks had factory sealant...good tanks and WAYYYyyy ahead of aftermarket. ALL THESE PRICES ARE EBAY PRICES!!! You'll pay alot more off Ebay for EVERYTHING I've just mentioned. I put a Bobber together so I'm current on prices here. I DO HAVE many, MANY left over parts I'd sell. That being, 2 sets of Shovelhead tanks, swingarm OEM oil tank, innner/outer Shovelhead primary with ALL internals and electric start set-up COMPLETE, etc. I have solo seats, fenders, pipes, and much more. Feel free to contact me at: jfranco@ureach.com ...of course, all parts can be seen on digital pics. I suggest the Shovelhead motor with the Evo standby because I know about these and their prices. Just sold a replica Pan (or should I say I gave one away!) and people fought over it on Ebay...it went for $4500 with no generator, no carb or manifold, no engine sprocket side! Good luck..should be a fun project!
Jim in Seattle "1950 Bobber"

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#3

Post by Jack_Hester » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:45 pm

Though I know virtually nothing about the internals of an Evo, you can't beat the price for a factory-stock engine from the 'Motor Company'. You see them advertised by dealers for much cheaper prices than you'll ever see for any aftermarket engines. That being said, I would still build a Shovel for Pan from scratch, just to get the hemi-heads. Never liked the sound of the late stuff, with their automotive wedge-heads. The 'potato, potato, potato' went away with the last Shovels. I have a scratch-built Shovel on one of my benches that is being built around the owner's budget. Very small budget. He's almost come up with enough to finish it, after a few years now. Still, he will only have a little more that $2K in it, when it's finished. We barter for the labor. His 4-speed transmission is the same way.
Your best bet is to pick up complete, used assemblies, with good paperwork. Plan on a thorough rebuild, with no performance mods. There are a few things that can be done, that don't compromise the life of the engine. But, performance always comes with a big price tag. You will have all the fun in the world with stock components. I don't know how you are, mechanically. But, quite a bit can be done by yourself, if you are willing to buy the manuals and follow them. Still, there is quite a bit that must be done by a shop equipped for the specialty work. Do it all over a period of time, and you won't feel it so bad in the wallet.
I've managed to talk all around your question, and not really give you much. I guess my point was mostly about keeping whatever you buy close to stock, and you have all the literature available to bail you out. Plus, with the parts manuals handy (a must for seeing how things go back together), you can have numbers ready when searching for replacement parts.

Jack

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#4

Post by Cotten » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:12 am

U-series motors have been unfairly under-rated, and definitely have the best prospects for preserving your investment.

....Cotten

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#5

Post by caschnd1 » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:05 am

As Jack mentioned, the factory Evo is a sweet deal if you are not looking for old iron. A friend of mine picked up a brand new w/ warrenty black/chrome Evo for $3000. Throw a cam in it and tweek the carb side a bit and you've got decent power and excellent reliability.

-Craig

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#6

Post by mbskeam » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:08 pm

funny that this is being brought up. I'm doing a rigid bobber, that might be all of 400lbs when done.
yes a evo motor can be had real cheap.
just pick up one, it was rebuilt, pulled a head stud and got yanked, the guy wanted more FUN(bigger motor) so I picked it up, I think I'll have more into the tranny rebuild then to get the engine back up and runnin.
but the go fast bug has gotten me as it came with a big cam,and me being the way that I am, I just have to make this work...... coil bind,now I have to get different springs
so as I go thru and look at diff parts combos, I keep thinking its only money......
lets see 11.1 on a kick only ;D

mbskeam

anybody got a line on a cheap used sproter setup

kell
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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#7

Post by kell » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:47 pm

What's a sproter?

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#8

Post by mbskeam » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:23 pm

Kell, a sproter is a wheel sprocket and rear brake rotor combined. Also known as a sprocket brake.

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#9

Post by kell » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:04 am

xnoahx

Blow everybody's mind and put a Yamaha motor in it.

xnoahx
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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#10

Post by xnoahx » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:47 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I am leaning towards an evo motor right now for the lower cost. Probably not a new one though. I would like the get the whole bike build for around $5000. I want it to be kick start for sure. I love the feeling of kicking over my pan. Looks good when it works!

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#11

Post by Billy » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:08 am

xnoahx-

$5,000. is mighty tight budget. For everything & running....If ya can do ALL the wrenching ya may squeak by.. ??? Used, parts etc..

evo is lowest cost....no soul thou. but better than a twinkee ::)

actually evo top-end, "rockers & set-up" are kinda similiar to Pan...
when you remove the allen screws. then the top-cap, middle spacer.
Bottom holds the rockers..(kinda like pan)
Simple motor really.
Only Big diff is; Long studs from the cases up thru the alum. cyl's & to heads. That are bolted down by 12 point locating nuts/wsleeves..
Stock pushrods are non-adjustable....
Bottom is similiar to late shovel. closer tolerances tho
Don't be afraid to rip her down as needed.
If ya go do evo they like to be torqued correctly...

I have to agree w/Cotten a "U"-series

panoply
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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#12

Post by panoply » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:04 pm

Around here, 5k for a PAN in any condition, stock or rat, worn out needing work, running or in a box, any way you can get it - seems to be a good deal if not a very good deal. Sure there are exceptions and folks who don't know better that sell MORE for LESS...big smiles when you make this find. Never been involved with putting a bike together from scratch but that could be fun to do. Good luck.

1950bobber

Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#13

Post by 1950bobber » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:37 pm

Good morning XNOAHX....I just wanted to add one bit of an opinion on the choice of an Evo motor. I agree with most of what has been said about an Evo motor, that being an inexpensive and probably good running motor. AND, the fact that you want to keep things under $5000. BUT.....when all is said and done, the complete build that is....what do you have? OK, so you have another bike in your stable to draw pride from...a Pan I'm guessing....and this Evo Bobber you're thinking of building is just a beater...BUT an EVO??? Why spend so much of your effort, time, money, and some heart & soul...on a rather SOULESS BIKE? I've been there, back in the late 60's when I wanted a Harley real bad but settled on what I could afford that being a BSA. Man, I put some $$$$ into her, chopped it out, rigid frame and all....all in the hope of building something "like" a Harley but within my budget! Guess What? It WASN'T a Harley, never felt like a Harley or sounded like a Harley and no one saw it as a Harley...needed less to say, it left me a bit short on the complete pleasure I was seeking....I just should have waited a bit more, saved a bit more $$$ and BOUGHT A HARLEY! My point...if I settled on an Evo as a choice of motor, I'd personally never feel quite satisfied that I had me a "real" vintage Bobber...heck, Bobbers are Knuckles and Pans....you can sometimes get away with a Shovel as a Bobber-wannabe, but an Evo? Not in my eyes! I see Evo attempts at "Bobber" styling frequently and some look decent UNTIL I see that Evo motor sitting in that frame...like magic, my interest is lost, I'm left feeling a bit amused that some fella had the class and style to build a replica of a period classic...the Bobnber...but missed the mark! Sorry, an Evo in my eyes will NEVER be a Bobber...no matter how much decoration you hang on her! And I'd ask you to think of what amount of pride are you going to have riding such a motorcycle? OK, OK it's a beater, a get out and rip, kind of bike....BUT.......picture it, a Bobber????? NEVER. Just my opinion from someone who's been there.
Jim in Seattle "1950 Bobber"

xnoahx
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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#14

Post by xnoahx » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:25 pm

:D good one kell that would make some people crazy

1950bobber, I already have my harley. The problem is it is a fairly stock looking 64 pan and I dont want to make any radical changes to it so I would like to build another bike that I can do as I please to. I suppose I should have asked this question on a board that didnt have panhead in the title.

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Re: Thinking of building a bike, need engine input

#15

Post by mbskeam » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:54 pm

the plan is to build, ride and at the same time have it for sale, if you can get double the money. then dump it , and get a new old one. thats a good plan, as most here would not feel to bad about selling a bike like this...... but to sell your pan thats a different story.

mbskeam

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