Shimming the engine

Forum rules
Please do not start new topics here, but here: New Panhead and Flathead topics
Post Reply
Hauula Pan
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:15 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
Location: California

Shimming the engine

#1

Post by Hauula Pan » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:34 am

I need some help with the best way to shim my motor to get the rear d-ring to not hit the seat post. In my original frame the engine fit flush on the mounts, front & rear and had plenty of clearance between the rear head & seat post. When I put it in the V-Twin 1949 wishbone frame it will not sit down on the mounts and the d-ring on the rear head hits the seat post. I can lift the rear approx. 1/8" and the head clears the post by about 1/8", but I'm concerned that the front mounts will not be sitting flush. I could shim front & rear which would make everything flat & level but I need to know if it would be OK to use washers between the motor & frame where the bolts go through or do I need to make shims that go all the way across the mount surfaces???



steinauge
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:05 pm
Bikes: 1938U,1949FL,1961FL,1968XL,1979FL ,1958 FL, 1965 BMW,1975 Honda CB750

Re: Shimming the engine

#2

Post by steinauge » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:08 pm

I believe I would relieve the D ring if there is enough room,if not work a little clearance ding into the frame tube.Or use the thin steel D rings?? (HATE aftermarket stuff! : :evil: )If you do shim the situation you describe would seem to me to indicate full length shims.

VintageTwin
Panhead Register Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

Re: Shimming the engine

#3

Post by VintageTwin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:19 pm

Send that frame back to V-Twin®. They can fix the problem, no matter what the problem. Call FedEx and UPs and any carrier you can think of. See if they will take your frame raw without a crate. Finding a willing carrier is all in the luck of the draw. V-Twin will send your frame back to you post-paid, but you have to pay the freight to get it there.
Call them today. Don't mess with the frame.

steinauge
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:05 pm
Bikes: 1938U,1949FL,1961FL,1968XL,1979FL ,1958 FL, 1965 BMW,1975 Honda CB750

Re: Shimming the engine

#4

Post by steinauge » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:25 pm

"Send the frame back" Probably real good advice VT.I didnt know they would fix them.

NightShift
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:20 pm
Bikes: Two Schwinns, a Hercules, and a Hiawatha
Location: Underground in Illinois

Re: Shimming the engine

#5

Post by NightShift » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:17 pm

Or you could relocate the holes forward in the mounts to where they should be, and be done with it.

Respectful as always,

NightShift

steinauge
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:05 pm
Bikes: 1938U,1949FL,1961FL,1968XL,1979FL ,1958 FL, 1965 BMW,1975 Honda CB750

Re: Shimming the engine

#6

Post by steinauge » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:57 pm

VT I think Nightshift suggested relocating the mount holes.I know I suggested a thin D ring or a dimple in the tube(Im lazy-redoing the holes sounded like work) :wink: But I didnt read anything from Cotten in this post?? I probably am "mechanically challenged": but I have done this for a living for 42 years now,(since when Ted was selling used Indian parts )and a fair number of the motorcycles I work on actually run! Seriously though I meant what I said-I really didnt know teds would repair those frames if they were off. Like NS says-respectful,Kurt

NightShift
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:20 pm
Bikes: Two Schwinns, a Hercules, and a Hiawatha
Location: Underground in Illinois

Re: Shimming the engine

#7

Post by NightShift » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:26 pm

I taught Cotton everything he knows.
I think Im safe on the hole fudge, if your careful enough.
The top motormount lets anything bolt up.

Somewheres somebody said that Corbin made TaiwanTedds frames.
Their sheepskin seatcovers sure stink. Or maybe thats just my oily jeans.

NightShift

Hauula Pan
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:15 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
Location: California

Re: Shimming the engine

#8

Post by Hauula Pan » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:58 pm

Aloha, I appreciate all the responses. Returning the frame is not an option at this point so as with sooooo many other parts I'm stuck with making it fit. I really don't want to grind on the d-ring or seat post, Nice chrome & powder coat already applied, and I'm afraid elongating the holes will weaken the mount points on the frame, and shimming does work to clear the post. My main concern is I want to make sure I have good contact at all mount points to avoid the possibility of cracking or breaking the cases. My biggest concern is that when I make a .100" shim for the rear mount the front will not be completely flat all the way across the mount surface. It will lift up slightly in the rear. Since the front does not need to be raised, it just needs to have a shim that will insure that the motor's mount tabs are able to fully contact the frame's mount surface. A tapered shim .002" to .006" front to rear seems to fill any gap made by raising the rear .100" I have plenty of .094 & .008 X 3/4" wide brass strips I can cut, drill and sand to make shims that will match up with the mount bosses. This should allow for the motor to make good solid contact across all the mount points. The .100" in the rear does not appear to throw anything else off enough to matter, ie oil lines, primary etc. So I'm thinking this may be the best available solution for me. I know I have read a couple of articles about shimming Pan motors but can't seem to locate them. Has anyone else done this successfully? Are those old posts in the KB somewhere? Thanks again. SLD

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Shimming the engine

#9

Post by Cotten » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:30 pm

SLD!

Rather than to elongate the holes, they should be tapped oversize for "slugs", meaning to fill the holes with threaded rod before filing flat and re-indexing them forward, preferably with the motorcases as a guide.
You may wish to check the distance to the transmission as well (especially if you have your heart set on a belt drive).

I feel it is important for the motormounts to be parallel, as a tapered shim will tend to squeeze out with vibration and road shocks.

Occasionally OEM frames have suffered to where a motor must be selectively shimmed in at four points, and it is perfectly acceptible to "bed in" the shims with an epoxy to increase the surface area and support. The epoxy can be sanded or scraped, and of course hidden with paint as well.

...Cotten

indianut
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:26 pm
Bikes: American
Location: Florida

Re: Shimming the engine

#10

Post by indianut » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:40 pm

I'll bet you are using the Really Thick rocker arm cover gaskets!

NightShift
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:20 pm
Bikes: Two Schwinns, a Hercules, and a Hiawatha
Location: Underground in Illinois

Re: Shimming the engine

#11

Post by NightShift » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:25 pm

indianut wrote:I'll bet you are using the Really Thick rocker arm cover gaskets!
Good Point!

Fat gaskets are the only reason you even need the dees.

NightShift

NightShift
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:20 pm
Bikes: Two Schwinns, a Hercules, and a Hiawatha
Location: Underground in Illinois

Re: Shimming the engine

#12

Post by NightShift » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:01 pm

panhead wrote:I deleted two messages because of their content.
Paranoia is killing me
If I did it, the bossman will cut my plug.

I'm sorry, it was the other workers on the shift, it was that way when I found it, it was the IceHouse talking.

Just trust me once

RESPECTful ,

THE NightShift


damn i cant delete this one either.

Panacea
Posts: 1857
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.

Re: Shimming the engine

#13

Post by Panacea » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:41 pm

Hauula, why not use the same thickness shim on the front mount? then no taper would be needed...Mike

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Shimming the engine

#14

Post by fourthgear » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:46 pm

If the covers are good and square to the head (gasket surfaces) , you can get away with out the D-rings & still use the thick gaskets ( not the cork ones ), if ya want . I never cared for cork up there. my 2.

plattd
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:04 am
Bikes: 54 FL
Location: portland, OR

Re: Shimming the engine

#15

Post by plattd » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:08 pm

I too have this D-ring to post contact, And I'm wondering how serious you guys think it is. I loosened up all the mounts, gained about a .020 gap, then snugged it all up again. Went for a ride, found the gap had closed up again. Don't sweat the small stuff or something to get after--what to ya think?
David

Post Reply

Return to “Motor”