Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

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Kowalski0A5599
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Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#1

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:28 am

Hello,
Hope someone can help me. Recently tore down my 65 pan. Did nothing to motor but detail it. When bike back together, it fired up in less than 6 kicks. Idled perfectly. Almost immediately, oil leaking from pushrod cover on front cylinder lifter block (exhaust). Within 30 to 60 seconds a whining, shreiking sound starts. Seems like it is coming from upper end of motor. At just a hair above idle it is loud. As I rev motor it gets much less apparent. As motor idles down it gets real loud again. After a very short ride, oil also leaking pretty badly out of rocker covers (especially front one). On that ride, motor ran just OK under very little load, but give it the throttle and it just falls all over itself. Just runs awful! When kicking bike with switch off, I hear a whoosh of air coming from front cylinder. Maybe a sticking valve? But bike idles and starts perfectly. Seems to have good compression. At least feels like it when kicking it over. Bike ran perfectly before. Only difference after teardown is that I put on a new oil tank and an oil filter. Sorry if this question is too long, but I am kind of new at this. Any advice on bike or if I should shorten my questions would be appreciated! Thanks!!!



Billy
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#2

Post by Billy » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:37 am

Welcome Kowalski-
(1) check the routing of your oil lines, sound wrong.
This will cause oil leaks as described.
(2) whoosh? Did you pull the heads off too.
DO NOT RUN BIKE till you check oil lines routing.

Kowalski0A5599
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#3

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:17 am

I was reading through some other questions and answers the last half hour or so and it makes me wonder about my oil lines being routed wrong also. Will check them tomorrow after work. Never messed with the heads. Thanks Billy!!!!

Hey Billy,
Double checked routing of oil lines. That was the problem. Fired up bike...NO MORE OIL LEAKS! Cool!!, but weird sound is still there. Also, bike backfires just a bit. Hissing sound is also still there. When I shut down bike, I could hear air hissing (leaking) from front cylinder. I am guessing that I may have blown a head gasket due to having excessive pressure build up. What do you think? Also, any other possible damage I should look for when I tear off head? Man, I want to ride, but I got to get all this sorted out. Any advice anyone may have would be great. You out there tonight, Billy? THANKS!!! Oh yeah. I double checked sketch that came with my new oil tank to make sure I got lines routed right. I know lines from pump were right as I marked them when I took them off. Sketch that came with oil tank clearly stated which fitting went to feed, vent, and return. There sketch was wrong!!! I hooked them up according to THEIR DIRECTIONS and it screwed up my bike. Do I have any recourse? I kinda doubt it. I guess it is a buyer beware deal. Santee oil tank out of a shop in southern CA. Thanks again!!

CknDnr
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#4

Post by CknDnr » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:12 am

Sounds like me 2 months ago. ;D
they sure do leak with the vent and return crossed. I can't even blame a bad diagram for the problem, it was nothing but my own stupidity and impatience to ride that blew up my motor. I still try and tell myself it was tired and needed rebuilt anyway, but am not convinced that this didn't help things along. Fix it before you ride it, or you will be fixing it along with the damage it does.

SFMike
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#5

Post by SFMike » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:59 pm

This would be a good time to start a section on: "When bad things happen to stupid people" or something silimilar.
See how many -including me- are willing to admit to and describe expensive dumbass mistakes.
:-/

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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#6

Post by Billy » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:00 am

K-
That sucks about that oil tank.
I always look into the oil tank after related work, to see retuning oil when running. Safety thing..
Things I'd check, Compression first. Then add a spoonful of oil thru the spark plug hole & Re-Test. If readings are only slightly higher rings should be ok. Do both cylinders to see what the're both doing. If the comp. is quite a bit higher after the oil it's a rings issue.
The whoosh you describe 'sounds' like a blown head gasket. Comp. Test will reveal this also. Low reading.
Let us know how it's going..

Kowalski0A5599
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#7

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:54 pm

Billy,
Will do what you suggested and go from there. I assumed when I should have confirmed about the oil tank. Maybe SF Mike has something there about bone head stories. Anyway, I appreciate all the help and responses from all out there!! Will keep you posted. Man it is cool to have a forum about panheads. You all have been great! Thanks!!

Kowalski0A5599
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#8

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:03 am

Checked out compression. Just about the same before and after I poured in the oil. 70 psi in both cylinders. Do not have a thread in compression tester. Trying to hold compression tester tight against hole while kicking it. Not easy. Do these readings sound a bit low? They are consistant from front to back cylinders. Read a bit further in Harley manual, and there it was in black and white. It says that a rapid on and off squel when the engine is running frequently accompanies this condition. The condition is a blown head gasket. I was wondering if anybody had any advice on what type or brand of head gaskets would be the best? Since, compression is about the same, do you think I should just leave in rings? Also, I read a couple of threads on synthetic oil. Maybe a good way to go for me when I get back up and running? Thanks everyone!!!

Billy
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#9

Post by Billy » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:19 am

Kowalski-
I assume you had the throttle wide open during Comp.Testing? Right.. Readings of over 100/120+ lbs. would be more normal. depending on Comp. ratio & cam
& as you said they are even. Yes they are LOW. Likely a few to several pounds higher w/a screw in comp. tester.
But if it ran OK before. You then can plan for a top-end later down the road. Cause it's heading that way!!! Sad

When you get the heads off check the cylinder walls anyway. But make sure the heads & cylinder surfaces are absolutely FLAT!! & that no Head thread insert are poking out.
I use James Gaskets, their Teflon head gaskets.
Your comp. readings didn't move any higher after oil, means that the valves are leaking. Just so you know.
Look at the head gasket it will show you where/if it was blown. Make sure the surfaces of head & cylinder are good there.
That's about it. Check everything & you will have bought some more time till top-end rebuild.
PS: after intake install, pressure test for leaks, thru Cotten's proceedure..
Let us know how it's going...

Kowalski0A5599
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#10

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Billy,
Read your reply and decided I had better get a better comp. tester. Bought me a thread in one. Trying to keep old one pushed tightly into hole was awfully tough. Anyway, I got some different results. Front cylinder before putting oil in is 90psi. Kicked it 5 times with throttle open. 1st kick about 60, gradually up to 90. Rear cyl. before oil is 100 psi. 1st kick about 60 then gradually up to 100. After oil in hole things are a bit different. Front and rear cyl. both after 5 kicks with throttle open read 120 psi. Does this sound a bit more normal, or does it still sound like trouble around the corner? Also, Why do you need throttle fully open to check compression? Dumb question? Will be getting some head gaskets and gettin' with it, but wanted to recheck this. Thanks!! P.S. Where is Cotten's procedure for manifold testing at? Would like to check it out.

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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#11

Post by panhead » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:55 pm


Billy
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#12

Post by Billy » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:15 pm

Kowalski-
The importance of the throttle WIDE OPEN, is so the motor can INHALE as deep as possible for an accurate comp. test. Hard to do with the butterfly closed in carb..
Well, this certainly has changed the entire situation.
Now with more accurate readings & re-testing with oil & having the readings "Raise" tells that the rings are showing wear. That IS the purpose of this test. To determine if it's Valves "Or" Pistons/rings. Understand?
Your readings show 20 & 30 psi differences with adding a spoonful of oil. The Oil makes the rings SEAL if they are weak, & if not the readings are about the same..
You still have decent compression. So if you want to just replace the head gasket. That will work. & later down the road you can do a complete top-end.
I hope you understand what I'm saying. Razz

Toymaster
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#13

Post by Toymaster » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:11 am

Small detail worth mentioning re: compression test.. Cool
It also has to be a fully warmed motor to be accurate [ I only mention it since you didn't know about the WOT.. testing a cold motor will not show true/full compression]
Also, I am a bit curious as to how mixing the 'vent' and 'return' oil lines would really be that drastic? [since they are right next to each other at the TOP of the oil tank?]
Now, I realize mixing up the feed and return [or the feed and vent] WOULD be drastic, yes Surprised

Kowalski0A5599
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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#14

Post by Kowalski0A5599 » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:38 am

I do understand. Thanks for explanation about WOT. Makes sense. I guess everyone knew about this except me. :-[ :-[. Tore the heads off this evening. Cylinder walls look OK to me. Valves seem to be sealing. Will get gaskets and get to work. Hopefully will be riding soon-just in time for winter :Smile. Will let you know what happens. Thanks all!!

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Re: Leaking oil, sounding awful, running bad

#15

Post by Billy » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:44 am

K-
Now is NOT the time to hurry!!!!!!! Check things out thoroughly. You DEFINITELY should see evidence of where/If the Leaking Head gasket is ?? If it is!!!
Since your cold comp. readings were decent.
Your may have an other problem making that noise....
Check your messages after signing in...

Toymaster-
Definitely most accurate comp. test should have motor fully warmed up. Since this motor IS making terrible sounds. My thoughts were, this may do more damage.
So I made no mention of running the motor to heat...
Cold readings can have certain value too. When deemed necessary.
Also, The vent & the return would not seem to make much difference. Feed & return or vent would.
But in 2 different bikes here, changing the lines has stopped the oil leaks.
The 2nd was on a round AM oil bag. Go Figure. ???

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