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generator install and gear back lash

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jimzap1
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generator install and gear back lash

#1

Post by jimzap1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:22 pm

I have a 48 el engine I've been building from scratch going to put the cycle electric 2 brush generator on curious if the old 3 brush gear works on the shaft also cam cover already has been installed if need be to get the back lash .002 I can take it apart again and do it but if there is anybody that can worn me of landmines or a failsafe way to install it properly and not pull cover off to confirm.002 lash that would be greatly appreciated. Also noticed while looking for the gear the oil deflector and spring whats the order for install. Spring deflector than gear? Thanks in advance Jim



58flh
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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#2

Post by 58flh » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:38 pm

JIMZAP!---Yes deflecter & gear!--Gear should be 14-tooth ,& use some loc-tite on the nut holding the gear on!---Put a new gasket on & bolt it up!---Start the bike,-if your getting a loud whine, you may have to add a gasket or use thinner one!---There is minimal play on the genny & it can be turned 1-way or the other then snugged-up!--It will twist in either direction VERY LITTLE!--.002 to .004 of an inch. Cycle-Electrics Gennys are the BEST GENNYS out there!-& anybody I have talked to that has one said it was a bolt-in with new gasket & DONE!---Olny worry if its winding loudly!--Then its time to add or put a used gasket on!--I have found that different suppliers have different thickness paper gaskets!---I use my old-ones & its silent!----Good-Luck---RICHIE

jimzap1
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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#3

Post by jimzap1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:52 pm

Thanks Richie that clears things up a bit. I was thinking the shimming occurs below the gene and the saddle however to clarify your way is different and you are adding and subtracting gaskets between the mounting surface and the gene itself till its quiet if I understand you correctly please reply. Thanks again brother. BTW you wouldn't be also known as Richie Pan from DST would you ?

RUBONE
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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#4

Post by RUBONE » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:00 pm

The shimming is done in the saddle, not the face. And the cycle electric setup needs the -58 type deflector with the built in spacer, not the spring loaded 3-brush type.
Robbie

58flh
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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#5

Post by 58flh » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:00 pm

JIMZAP!--No different Richie.I run a 65-A genny 2-brush & run 12-volts!---Whenever I rebuild a genny for someone I like to bolt-up to bike & run it!--I have some paper gaskets that are thin & some thicker!---Usually if the old-gasket is not damaged I go with that first!--& usually its a no whiner!/-Aometimes you get one that winds & ALL CUSTOM-CHROME GENNYS WHINE!---Just to let you guys know.They require some finess to stop this!-(but can be stopped).I feel your cycle Electrics genny will run great without whinning!--If it does, try the old gasket or add another gasket!---I thought you had a 58 ,my bad I didn't have the cheaters on :lol: ----GOOD-LUCK---RICHIE

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#6

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:38 am

Just as an FYI, you don't need the deflector/spring if you rebuild the genny with a new sealed bearing up front.
DD

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#7

Post by 58flh » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Frankenstien is ABSOLUTLY correct!--you don't need the spring if using a sealed bering!---I never put them back-in unless its an original- machine as the 36-E that is in my possession AGAIN! :roll: ---Well see how-long I get it this time :lol: ---RICHIE

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#8

Post by RUBONE » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:05 pm

The use of a sealed bearing does not negate the need for the spring and deflector which are part of the spacing system for 3-brush armatures that are otherwise not held in position. Running without them can allow the armature to shift in position putting pressure on the left side fiber washer and allowing the armature to come into contact with the components on the left side of the frame which will destroy the armature. The spring keeps the armature located to the gearcase side as designed. I always run them no matter what bearings are in the generator case. This was fixed on two brush models by having a solid spacer and a nut to retain the gear making the connection with the bearing solid.
Robbie

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#9

Post by Frankenstein » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:52 am

Well, actually, the armature position wrt to the fields and brushes is determined by the spacers and fiber washer between the commutator and the commutator end bearing. the bearing is located by the snap ring in its housing, preventing the armature ass'y from traveling to the "left" (from the rider's perspective). The commutator end bearing is usually a relatively tight fit in its housing which seems to keep the armature from traveling to the right. the grease shield is also in a position to keep the bearing from working out to the right to any extent. On the drive end, the armature bearing is a tight fit on the armature, and usually just slides or lightly (hand pressure) fits into the main generator frame. This allows the armature room to lengthen with temperature by having the drive end bearing float within the generator housing. As for the spring and oil slinger, that would put pressure on the inner drive end bearing race, so it would tend to help the bearing stay in place on the armature and allow all dimensional shifts in the armature overall ass'y to be compensated for at the outer race/generator housing juncture.
The oil slinger would have to actually make contact with the generator housing before it could act in a armature positioning role.
In use, I've omitted the slinger and spring for many years in many generators, and have had no repercussions. Just one man's opinion, of course. Your results may vary.
DD

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#10

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:59 pm

Over the years I have rebuilt many generators that suffered from armature shift to the left allowing the armature to apply enough pressure to destroy the fiber spacer on the left side and create an internal short. The combination of lack of the spring and deflector along with inadequate gear lash allows the armature to preload to the left and over time it eats its way through the shims and spacersand slides in the bearing. Merely relating my experience over many years.
Robbie

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Re: generator install and gear back lash

#11

Post by Frankenstein » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:53 pm

Agreed, the lack of gear lash could certainly wreak havoc, as you say.
DD

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