6V Generator Speed

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tdewalt
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6V Generator Speed

#1

Post by tdewalt » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:29 pm

I have a fully functional 6V system that I have tuned to put out about 2 amps over what the system uses. The battery is new and the solid state relay is functioning properly. Here's my problem; the battery (all 3 that I have used) still goes dead on long rides. It looks to me like the generator is charging in too narrow of an RMP range. Is there an adjustment that I can make to change this? I know about moving the 3rd brush to change the charging rate but that's the only adjustment that I can find.



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#2

Post by john HD » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:43 pm

do you ride with your headlight on or off?

perhaps you could get your bike to charge good with the headlight on and run it that way.

i converted mine to a 2 brush set up with a delco remy regulator many years ago and it has worked well ever since. lights on or off.

i would still like to find someone who makes a stock looking cut out relay that would work with a 2 brush genny.

john

tdewalt
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#3

Post by tdewalt » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:05 pm

I run head light on but it only charges at the correct rate at an RPM ranges that appears to be below normal cruising speed. Any time the generator is above or below that RPM it ramps down to almost no charge at all. My system uses a little over 4 amps and I set it up so the generator puts out 6amps / 6.8 volts peak - which is at an RPM where it really isn't doing any good for me. Head light off it will run a very long time but it still drops durinig the ride.

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#4

Post by john HD » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:43 pm

it is possible you have a "flying short" in your armature.

a 'flying short" is a loose wire that only goes open after a certain rpm is reached.

you might try another armature and see if the problem continues.

please report back so we all can learn from your experiance.

john

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#5

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:18 am

tdewalt..
The efficiency of a 32E 3 brush, by design, decreases as speed increases. Some of the older factory repair manuals which cover extensive generator repair and troubleshooting address this. They were weak in the commutator section where the brushes ride. The factory books come right out and tell you that if you left the house at sundown and rode all night the battery would be dead before the sun came up. No apologies, that's just the way they were.

I've posted in other threads the fact that there are 2 different field windings in the 32E, when the ignition switch is turned to the first position, just ignition, only one of the coils is energized and the generator is operating at about half its capacity. When you switch the lights on it also feeds current to the 2nd field winding which kicks up the charge rate.

A little "trick" is to turn the lights on with the ignition switch and then kill the headlight by balancing the dimmer switch in the middle so the 35 watt light is not consuming all your output.

The biggest problem with trying to increase the output of a 32E is overheating, the harder it works the hotter it gets. If it gets hot enough for a long period of time it melts the soldered connections in the armature. If you have ever run one with the cover off at night you'll see a very obvious "ring of fire" around the commutator, and thats when its operating normally.

3 brush units are limited and fixed by the position of the 3rd brush, its almost impossible to make them work hard enough to destroy themselves. When you convert them to 2 brush and replace the relay with a regulator, the regulator will try to increase output until it matches the load, thats when they start to melt down. That's why the police units came with that butt ugly cooling fan mounted in place of the cover.

keep us posted

mike

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#6

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:41 am

one more trick I forgot to mention is adding a daytime, low watt running light to operate instead of the main headlight. I think Cotten may have said something about this a while back.

You can get a cheap repop reflector for your CycleRay and mount a small socket in the bottom of it to hold a 5 watt bulb. The old 6 volt Volkswagens came that way. Wire it up so your low watt bulb will come on with the headlight switch to keep the cops happy when your running during the day.

tdewalt
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#7

Post by tdewalt » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:04 pm

I have a switch to turn my head light off, so no need to balance between positions. I have studied the wiring diagrams and don't see the feed to the second terminal on the generator. I only have one wire running from the front terminal to the cut out. What should be going to the back terminal? How much voltage should be feeding it and where should it be coming from?

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#8

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:12 pm

tdewalt...
There should be 2 terminals on the 32E, if the tag is still on it there should be labels which say "Switch" and "Relay". The front terminal (closest to the front wheel) is the "switch", there should be a green wire connected to it that runs up to the #2 terminal on the ignition switch, the one that sends power to all the lights. When you turn the ignition switch to the 2nd click (lights on) it feeds power to the 2nd field coil in the genny, doubling its output.

The rear terminal (towards the engine) is the "Relay" terminal, should be another green wire which runs to the relay. Yes, in the original wire harnesses they were both green, kinda stupid. The relay should have 2 terminals on one end and a single terminal on the opposite end, the wire from the genny hooks to the single end. When the cutout relay cuts in, it connects this directly to the positive battery terminal.

I think Panhead has a couple of wiring diagrams posted in the technical section.

mike

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#9

Post by FlatHeadSix » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:23 pm

the wiring diagrams are in the knowledge base

tdewalt
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#10

Post by tdewalt » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:27 pm

Sorry, I was going from memory. It is the back terminal that is marked relay that goes to the cut out. To avoid damage to the generator I should back it down to where it was and run a feed off of the ignition switch to the switch terminal on the generator so I use all of the generator. This may have an effect on the range that is charges and sounds like it may be worth trying. I have that diagram but without knowing how the original switch and the terminal strip are internally wired didn't understand why it needed to be wired that way. Thanks guys!

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6V generator speed

#11

Post by 108 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:45 am

Here in Indiana we've had to have our headlights on all the time for years, so I just ran a jumper wire from one generator terminal to the other so it charge full power all the time. Then you adjust the 3rd brush so it always charges a little on ther positive side (I have an amp guage which makes it easy to watch, pics are in the "garage") at cruiseing with a fully charged battery. If you ride often, check the standing voltage about once a week to see if it stays around 6.2-3 and adjust the 3rd brush acordingly. If I turn off the lights it will put out over 10 amps.

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#12

Post by FlatHeadSix » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:04 am

108...
that's another good trick I forgot to mention earlier, jumpering the 2 genny terminals together. That way both field coils get juice as soon as the relay cuts in and the genny always operates at full capacity.

The only thing you have to look out for with that set up is overcharging, you should keep the lights on all the time or you'll boil the battery dry.

mike

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#13

Post by john HD » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:05 pm

boy after reading the last 8 posts or so, (all of which are great btw.) i can see why troubleshooting a 3 brush system is challenging to say the least!

when i check my 2 brush i connect an ammeter in series with the battery and momentarily ground the field. if the generator charges i know to look at the points in the regulator. simple.

if i find the generator lacks current output or is less than normal i pull it out of the bike. after cleaning the commutator and inspecting the brushes i jumper the field and armature terminals and connect them to a good battery. the generator now spins because it is a motor.

the speed it spins verifies my "repairs" and confirms if it will work when reinstalled. if it runs as a motor it will produce current when spun on the bike. works every time.

now, my question is: have any of you guys with 3 brush units ever figured out a way to do this? is it even possible given the way a 3 brush is wired?

john

tdewalt
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#14

Post by tdewalt » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:50 pm

I talked to another guy yesterday and he sugessed jumping from the "switch" to the "relay" terminals also. That seemed like a flawed theory since the generator didn't seem to produce hardly anything at low speeds. After some experimentation though it proved to work great. I got in about a 20 mile ride last night and then 30 miles to work this morning. Battery is right where it should be and it doesn't seem to be overheating the generator. You guys are the best. Thanks so much!

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#15

Post by FlatHeadSix » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:47 pm

John,
A 3 brush unit will "motor" just like a 2 brush. You need a good power source and tight connections, its a great way to quick test a 32E. Be careful that you don't arc weld the terminal when you connect the power!!!

mike

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